Gender inequality. Vulnerability. Consent. No doubt, these can be tough subjects to broach with our sons. But if we hope to raise our boys to be respectful, emotionally healthy men, then these are conversations which must be had. Adam explores these themes and more with father of six and Chief Development Officer of A CALL TO MEN, Ted Bunch. Plus, Marc has yet another awkward, dairy-themed encounter with his kids.
Gender inequality. Vulnerability. Consent. No doubt, these can be tough subjects to broach with our sons. But if we hope to raise our boys to be respectful, emotionally healthy men, then these are conversations which must be had. Adam explores these themes and more with father of six and Chief Development Officer of A CALL TO MEN, Ted Bunch. Plus, Marc has yet another awkward, dairy-themed encounter with his kids.
As life in quarantine continues, Adam and Marc dig in on the topic of talking to boys about valuing women as equals. This sparks a deeper exploration of how, among themselves, men talk about and ally with women—and how these things have evolved over time. Adam introduces guest Ted Bunch, father of six and chief development officer of A CALL TO MEN, an organization devoted to promoting healthy and respectful manhood and shifting attitudes and behaviors toward women. Adam and Ted cover many topics, including:
• Defining the “Man Box”
• The “collective socialization” of men
• Calling men out using affirmation instead of accusation
• Encouraging young men to be vulnerable
• What “consent” really means
• Techniques for having the “birds and the bees” talk with your son
• Modeling gender equality, and respectful and loving behavior with your spouse
• Raising your son to be his authentic self
Also, Marc asks himself (twice), “Did I Just Say That Out Loud?" The guys promote an upcoming episode on the topic of “dad jokes” and invite listeners to leave their best dad joke in the Modern Dadhood voicemail box at 603-431-5465 for a chance to win a prize from Brümate!
Happy Mother’s Day, Moms!
Links:
A CALL TO MEN
ACTM Virtual Trainings
Ted Bunch on Instagram
A Mighty Girl
Caspar Babypants
Red Vault Audio
Spencer Albee
Bubby Lewis
Adam:
Well, here we are.
Marc:
Back in the bathroom.
Adam:
Yeah, we're recording remotely but it sounds like we're in the same place, doesn't it?
Marc:
It feels like we're in the same place, Adam.
Adam:
Man, technology.
Marc:
I know, it's wild.
Adam:
Well, this is Modern Dadhood. It's an ongoing conversation about the joys, challenges, and general insanity of being a dad in this moment.
Marc:
We should probably introduce ourselves.
Adam:
Why don't you tell the dad and mom listeners who you are.
Marc:
I am Marc Checket. I am a dad of twin boy toddlers.
Adam:
How are they?
Marc:
Bouncing off the walls a little bit. But they're doing good.
Adam:
Great. My name's Adam Flaherty. I am a father of two daughters, six years old and three years old, and they are stir crazy.
Marc:
Stir crazy.
Adam:
Bat shit stir crazy.
Marc:
Who is more stir crazy? The older one or the younger one?
Adam:
They're both going totally nuts, man. They are best friends. They love each other. But they are just in this phase where they really get each other going and really aggravate each other too, and so it can get very whiny and very ... they can really get on each other's nerves. But then they can turn around and play together quietly or do an art project for 30 minutes, 40 minutes, and be totally hands off.
Marc:
Yeah. One of them is a little bit more, I don't know, needs a little bit more attention, and the other one is just like a little ball of energy. He just is never ... he's never stopping.
Adam:
The joys of dadding during a pandemic.
Adam:
Marc, your boys are two years old.
Marc:
Yeah, two in a couple months.
Adam:
So have you thought about when they're at an age when you can engage them in really meaningful conversations, how you will convey the importance of respecting the young women who they go to school with? I know that's kind of a heavy topic and they're really young, but is that something that you and Jamie have talked about at all?
Marc:
I mean, it's something that I think about because I'm a little bit terrified having two boys.
Adam:
Terrified, why?
Marc:
Well, I'm kind of just terrified I think because I think that I grew up at a time where there was a lot of assumptions made about how you treat men versus how you treat women. And I think I had good role models in my life, but I think that the general discussion wasn't ... it wasn't there. And I think the national discussion has changed a lot over the years, and it's something that's becoming more and more a part of everybody's, I guess, day to day.
Adam:
So there was never a point where your parents sat you down and said, "Marc, there are these gender inequalities and imbalances in the world, and it's important to our family that we raise our sons to treat women equally to men."
Marc:
Yeah, I don't think that conversation ever happened. It wasn't that my family didn't believe in that. My parents definitely instilled within me, "You need to respect people no matter who they are, no matter what they look like, no matter where they're from." Specifically talking about gender differences, for example, is not a path that we really ever went down. And I think that's one of the things ... when I say I'm terrified a little bit. I've only been having those conversations for so long, so they're not fully ingrained, but there's still a lot that I'm learning myself. And now I'm responsible for passing that on to my two kids, and I don't want to screw that up.
Adam:
Absolutely. I think back to my days playing on the playground in elementary school. I had a group of friends that included boys and girls, and we would run around playing kissing boys. The boys would chase the girls around and try to give them a kiss. And it wasn't like ... it was not a violent thing. It was not a kissing on the lips thing. It was like you tried to plant a kiss on somebody's cheek. It was totally harmless. And to the best of my knowledge, at the time, the girls didn't feel threatened by it, everybody was laughing and having fun. But as a parent, if I saw that happening now, I would say something.
Marc:
Oh, yeah.
Adam:
You know?
Marc:
Oh, yeah.
Adam:
It was a very different world. But then, is that just an excuse? If I think back now, were those girls, who I'm still acquaintances with now, uncomfortable by that? It's certainly not to the extent of a Me Too type scenario. This is elementary school and we were running around in the playground. But it's terrifying to think that in playing those innocent kid games that you could've made somebody feel uncomfortable or violated.
Marc:
Completely. There was a general assumption of what was okay to do at that age. We're talking like playground, elementary school type age. There was a general assumption of the type of behavior that a boy could get away with. It wasn't malicious. I mean, especially at that age. There's no ill will or anything like that. The behavior is just what we did. Like you were saying, running around with the kissing game. There's no way that was cool. That wasn't cool. There's this sort of dichotomy I guess, maybe, of, "Yeah, but that's how I was as a little kid." I don't know. The conversations have been happening enough now to know, "Just because that's how I was when I was a kid, that doesn't make it right at all."
Marc:
And to answer your original question. I have no idea how I would even begin talking about this kind of stuff, or really when to do it with them. I think just because they're just not there yet.
Adam:
Right. It's almost like, in order to have a real conversation about respecting the other gender, you need to acknowledge to them or introduced to them that there is a problem. That there is this imbalance. You got to wait until the point where they can comprehend that there's this inequality and there always has been, before you can address how they can behave in a way that doesn't support inequality.
Marc:
What makes it confusing for me is that right now they don't know that stuff. When I said I can't really start talking with... I can't start talking with them, but I can show them. They can see in our household what it means to be respectful of one another, just because they get to see my wife and I interact. And hopefully we're doing a good job leading by example in that way. I mean, she barely hits me. But they're kind of remain innocent of this whole idea that there is inequality because they're so young, but it's like, they're going to see it someday. And I suppose if it's something that they absolutely have to find out someday, then I want my wife and I to be the ones to sort of do it. If we can control that even. I hate for them to have to even learn that this is a thing, you know?
Adam:
Well, I recently had a conversation with Ted Bunch. Ted is the chief development officer of A CALL TO MEN, which is an organization whose mission is to educate men about healthy, respectful manhood. And then by doing this preventing sexual and physical violence, harassment, and bullying against women. Ted has six kids and he works with professional athletes and sports organizations. He lectures to young students and everything in between. All to support A CALL TO MEN's mission.
Adam:
Ted, thank you so much for joining. It's really nice to connect with you.
Ted:
Thank you for the invitation. I'm really excited to be here.
Adam:
You were recommended by my friend Mary Jo Brown who's seen you present in front of the New Hampshire Women's Foundation, I believe. One of the ways that we're turned on to guests for Modern Dadhood is by leveraging connections. And so I want to thank Mary Jo Brown for bringing your name into the conversation. Ted, can you give our listeners a quick introduction to who you are and to the organization A CALL TO MEN?
Ted:
Of course. I'm Ted Bunch. I'm the Chief Development Officer but also the cofounder of A CAL TO MEN. Tony Porter and I founded the organization in 2002, 18 years ago, and we've really been building it ever since. A CALL TO MEN educates men all over the world on healthy, respectful manhood. Embracing and promoting a healthy and respectful manhood, we know that when we do that it prevents all forms of violence and discrimination against women and girls, and all gender based violence as well. We've been an organization for 18 years. Tony and I have been working together for more than 20 years. So we have more than 20 years of experience working and training men and young men. And that goes from corporate America to professional athletes in the NBA, NFL, NHL, Major League Baseball, Major League Soccer, down to our Live Respect curriculum, which is with high school and middle school boys. It's called Live Respect Coaching, Healthy, Respectful Manhood. And we also work with the U.S. military, with first responders, Department of Justice, United Nations. Wherever there's men and boys is really where we want to be. A lot of work on colleges as well.
Adam:
That's really impressive and spans such a wide audience. How big is your organization?
Ted:
We have 10 full time people and then we have about 12 trainers, which means we can beef up whenever we need to. We're a national organization so our 10 staff are throughout the country.
Adam:
One of the big takeaways that I gained from watching one of the keynotes on your website is that a big part of contributing to the solution is calling it out when you witness the problem. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Ted:
Sure. Calling it out is really important. Men developing a voice in order to call it out. One of the things that A CALL TO MEN ... if I can just say that our mission is to promote healthy, respectful manhood, and challenge those things that devalue women and girls and other marginalized groups. And our vision is to create a world where all men and boys are loving and respectful, and all women and girls are valued and safe. And so when we call men out, we want to be intentional about that. But the work of A CALL TO MEN also knows that it's important to call men in. And as we go forward with this conversation, I just want the listening audience to know, the conversation we're having is never an indictment on manhood, but always an invitation to men. That's really an important thing. That we need to meet men where they are. When we are confronting other men or calling men out, and saying to our buddy, "Hey man, that's not cool," understanding that those men who are doing the things that aren't cool are really doing it based on what they've been taught about manhood, and they've been taught things that are harmful about manhood. So the collective socialization of men, how we've all been taught to be men, I'm in New York, you're in New Hampshire, anywhere else in our country, we've all been taught certain things, and we pass these teachings down to our boys. How we've been taught, the messages we're getting from society in our culture, what's passed down from one generation to the next, what we then pass down to our boys. We've coined a phrase called the Man Box, so I'll be referring to the collective socialization of men as the Man Box. The things we're taught about being a man. They're fit into this box. What we're taught in general as men is three things within our culture. Because the culture is really male dominant culture, and sexism is really what supports that. And how we're taught these things ... And it doesn't mean that you act out on these things, or I act out on these things, but these are the things we're taught. That women and girls have less value than men and boys. That's what we're taught. Not that we believe it, but that's what we're taught. That women and girls on some level are the property of men. So if I'm in your community or anywhere in Main Street USA, and I walk over to a man right now in 2020 who just struck his wife or girlfriend and I say, "Knock it off." He says to me, "Mind your business." So that's our collective socialization. By the way, three women a day are killed in the United States from domestic violence. I bring it up because those three women who are killed every day are killed ... 75% of them are killed once she decides to leave or has left. What that tells us is ... so the risk goes up when she says, "I'm taking my life back." And he then says, "No." That's property ownership. So that's in our culture. So let's value property. And then we're taught that women and girls are sexual objects. That's why this post Me Too time has really kind of hit all men in some way where we've had to say, "Whoa, wait a minute. Maybe I've done something like that." Let me put it this way. I haven't met a man who hasn't either done something or said something that sexually objectified a woman, or witnessed another man doing something or saying something and did nothing about it. I'm a hundred percent confident in saying that because one of the ways that we prove to each other that we're men in this Man Box is to objectify women. And if you don't, then you are punished by other men by saying things like, "What's wrong with you?" All those things that we know men say to other men to push them back into the Man Box. And most of those are heterosexist or homophobic things because the glue that keeps the Man Box together is homophobia. So to answer your question, as a way of calling men out, we really have to do it with understanding that ... let's assume these are not bad men, they just are misinformed and we have to do things differently. And one thing that's cool about the post Me Too moment that we're in is that not only was it a time of forced reflection for men, where we've had to reflect and look in our rear view mirror, but it's also a time that we can reset. Where I can say, "Hey dude, come on. Where have you been? We don't say that anymore." So it makes it a little bit easier when our culture moves towards respecting women, then it's easier for us to confront other men or challenge other men, or encourage other men to be respectful toward women.
Adam:
Is part of calling men in also calling out the positive things that you see?
Ted:
Yes. That's brilliant, and that's what we'd rather promote. I'd rather always say, "This is what we can be doing." Or, "Doesn't this feel great to do this." Opposed to, "Stop doing that." The affirmation always feels better than the kind of doing something different. So I guess we need to do both really. But we definitely want to lift up men who promote healthy, respectful manhood. So if someone's standing up in their workplace for equal pay for women, that's a wonderful thing. That's what we want. If someone's standing up in their workplace for promotions for women and mentoring done for women, those are wonderful things. If you're speaking up in their high school or college around respectful behavior, because girls and women are being sexually harassed in the hallway or on the staircase as they're going to classes, those are really important things. But we also want to educate men about why it's harmful. We're silent because we've been taught to be. Most men don't engage in violence or abuse. Most men don't engage in sexual harassment in the workplace. But we are silent about those that do, and that silence is as much of the problem as the abuse or the violence or the harassment is. That's a really important thing to say because we are more invested in the relationship with men than what's happening to women.
Adam:
Well, I think a lot of times we think about it from the perspective of my career is on the line too. So if I see something happening over here and it involves somebody who is a superior to me and I call that out, then is this going to destroy my own career?
Ted:
Yeah. There are times that we have to weigh, whether it's speaking out about something a supervisor might've done, or whether it's confronting a man who's abusive in your community. We do have to weigh that and we want to look at our own personal safety, but at the same time we have to start somewhere. So maybe it's not necessarily confronting him but going to HR and stating that, "Hey, this is what happened. I'm concerned about that." And there's also ways, depending on the relationship, that we can say things to other men that aren't in the moment. I'm going to wait and I'm going to address it a bit later. Later on during the day or whenever and say, "Hey, what I saw today really concerned me." Other things that we want to uplift as well are when men speak out around mental health issues, around suicide, around their anxiety, around their depression. Speaking out around those things. Encouraging other men to ask for help, that asking for help is something that we really want to do. Because that's also in the Man Box, that you don't ask for help. You're supposed to be able to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, don't ask for help, don't show vulnerability. It's going to be seen as weakness. That's why we don't go to the doctor when things are bothering us, until it's time to intervene and now it's too late. That we don't even ask for directions at times because it's like, "I don't want to seem like I don't know anything." So it's really important that we lift up those men who say, "Hey, I'm hurting," and they're showing vulnerability. Because that's where healthy manhood really becomes something where we can see the strength in that vulnerability.
Adam:
When thinking about the Me Too movement that you brought up earlier and all of the just staggering statistics about undergraduate college women experiencing sexual misconduct, one of the big words that comes into play is consent. A lot of our listeners are fathers of young boys. In your experience, is there a right time to start introducing words like consent into their vocabulary?
Ted:
Yes. That's a great question. I love this. And I really love this from men because when we look at consent ... We interviewed high school boys from all around the country. These were high school boys in affluent communities, in financially poor communities, in homogenous communities, in very diverse communities, different religion, different cultural backgrounds, and we asked high school boys, "Can you define consent?" Only 19% of our high school boys could define consent. And I'm talking about all high school boys. Talking about private schools, public schools. Eight out of 10 boys could not define consent. Now that explains a lot. It explains sexual assault in colleges. Sexual assault in the military. Why girls and women between 16 and 24 are at the highest risk for being sexually assaulted, because our boys think no means try harder. That's the message we give to them because we don't have conversations with our boys, especially dads. We don't have the tough conversations with our boys, because we don't really know how to have those conversations because we never had those conversations. This is a whole new world for us. Now, we can start very early on with boys and girls. If they don't want somebody to give them a hug, to say, "You know what? I don't want a hug." And to be okay with that. That if you take somebody's toy, then say, "You have to answer for that. You have to ask for consent. You have to ask for permission." So there's those kinds of lessons. And as we move up through middle school and high school with this curriculum ... It was 19%. Only one lesson of the curriculum was on consent, and after that, that number went to 75% of our boys could define consent. They understood that only thing that means yes is yes, and that it needs to be an enthusiastic yes. That when she tightens up her body, even though she didn't say no, that's a no. Right?
Adam:
Mm-hmm.
Ted:
When she's saying, "Oh, stop. Stop kidding around." All those things. So having those conversations are important for our boys, and for our fathers to have them with our boys. We don't do that. We have conversations with our daughters all the time around their bodies, around how they expose their bodies, how they carry themselves. We're really very clear on that as dads. When I ask a group of dads, "When should your daughters have sex?" Every one of them says, "Never." And when we ask those same dads, "When should your boys have sex?" It gets quiet. They're kind of like, "Well ..." Somebody might say, "Well, what's the offer?" And I'll say, "Well, if your son's going to college as a virgin, does that worry you?" He said, "Yeah, it probably would. I'd worry about what's going on with my son." We can't have it both ways. We have to have these conversations with our boys. And another thing we need to have a conversation with our boys about, which I have had with my sons, is that ... not only about their consent and them understanding what consent is, but also about, "If you're not ready to do a certain thing, whatever that is, I want you to say no. That doesn't mean that you're not a man. It's okay to say no. It's okay not to do those things. I want you to not do them until you're ready to do them. You need to be happy and enthusiastic about whatever you do in life, including this. These are adult decisions and we don't make adult decisions till we're 18." And that's where we started having more conversations about it. Now, I live in the real world and my oldest son didn't happen to wait till he was 18. But he had conversations with his girlfriend for a year in how they were moving forward, so when they did finally have sex, they were doing it responsibly. And they were doing it intentionally, in a way that made sense for them. Would I have preferred him to wait till he was older? Yes, but I really felt like, you know what? He's as prepared as he was going to be and that I can't control that so much as a parent.
Adam:
It sounds like what you're saying to fathers who are listening is if they're not comfortable having those taboo conversations either get over it and find a way to do it, or to utilize those resources that are available that can help them to share that message with their son.
Ted:
Yeah. It's a very awkward conversation. It is. And even with me, with all that I know, it's not an easy conversation with my sons. But the earlier you start, the easier it is. And even when things come up on TV that you might be watching, you might want to ask a question about that. Do it informally. If you're just driving somewhere and, I don't know, a song comes on the radio and it mentions something, or you know he's dating someone or interested in someone, say, "Oh, well, you know what? Well, what have you thought about that?" Or, "What about consent? What do you know about consent?" Having it informally, where it's not so high anxiety producing. Like, "We're going to sit down and have the sex talk now."
Adam:
So, for fathers of very young children, the thing that would need to come first before you tell them how to treat women is to teach them about this sort of imbalance and injustice, and sort of the history of how the genders have treated each other differently. What is your advice for fathers who have sons who are three, four starting to talk, starting to have some social interaction?
Ted:
Yeah. Well, I would say to really, first of all, model respectful and loving and healthy behavior with their mother. Number one of course. That's a given, but it needs to be said as well. What we really want to ... I know you have two daughters and I would say if you had a son as well, we want to make sure that the chores or the responsibilities around the house that they're doing are the same. That we're not really separating it by gender. That my kids see me cook and see me do dishes and see me do laundry, and they see their mom do things in the yard and so forth. We start from the very beginning. If we know it's a boy, we're already painting the room blue, and if it's a girl we're painting the room pink. And those types of things. So we start very early. And then it goes on. We're really directing him to the trucks and the toys that are about building and around using their hands, opposed to around nurturing, like with a doll or something like that. So we want to really allow that child to really show us what they're interested in. Because he might want to pick up a doll and that's really okay. That's alright to do. And a daughter might want to play with trucks. So I think it's really important that we just allow the kids to show us who they are and how they want to be. And also, expose them to books that have strong female characters. And then as they get older, expose them to women authors and movies that focus on strong women leaders as well. So I think that it's really about us keeping boys where they're not confined to this Man Box, allowing them to be their authentic selves. We also need to allow our boys to cry. Because when we tell our little boys to stop crying, we're telling them to stop feeling and they don't know the difference. Our strength is important in a physical way, but our strength is also important in an emotional and vulnerable way. I remember I would always bring flowers home on a weekly basis as a gift to my wife. After about 10 years of that, I'm realizing she doesn't really care if I bring flowers home or not. It turns out that I was the one who really wanted the flowers. I'm bringing them home because I like the way they look. I like the way they smell. That's what it was about. But I was doing it under the disguise of a gift to her because men aren't supposed to go out and get flowers or appreciate flowers. Once I did that and embraced that this is my authentic self, now, I go get flowers every week. I'm very selective in what flowers I want. The florist knows me when I come in the door. They say, "Hey Ted, we have these today. We have that today." I love it because it's now in my home and it's something I enjoy and embrace, and my kids see me do that. So then it's a different experience for them.
Adam:
Ted, you mentioned that one way to help support our teaching to our sons is by presenting them with books and movies where there is a strong female lead or protagonist of a woman in the leading role. Do you have any recommendations for books and movies that you've appreciated?
Ted:
Yeah, actually I do. The parent who's looking for books with strong female leads, I would provide them with the resource, and it's online, called the Mighty Girl. It has resources about movies and books with strong female leads, and there's lots of information there. The Mighty Girl.
Adam:
So, Ted Bunch, I want to thank you for taking time to be on Modern Dadhood. It's exciting to speak with you. And thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience and your organization A CALL TO MEN with our listeners.
Ted:
Thank you, brother. I appreciate you. Thanks for all that you do to use your platform to amplify this message.
Marc:
I'm picking up my phone here because I have a, "did I just say that out loud?"
Adam:
Beautiful.
Marc:
What's your feeling on that?
Adam:
You want to know the truth?
Marc:
You excited?
Adam:
I think you're "did I just say that out louds" are always very strong.
Marc:
I hope so. I have two of them.
Adam:
Well, listen, if you can move fast, then do both of them.
Marc:
I'm going to do what I never do, which is I'm going to say what I said first, then I'll explain where it came from.
Adam:
Can't wait.
Marc:
Here's what I said out loud, "Plop it in your mouth."
Adam:
That's it? Plain and simple.
Marc:
Plop it in your mouth.
Adam:
Do I get to guess the context?
Marc:
You could try.
Adam:
I sensed skepticism in your voice. Why don't you just go into it? Why don't you give it a shot? We know the boys like cheese, so this is ...
Marc:
You're already close.
Adam:
... this is some kind of cheese. This is some kind of dairy product.
Marc:
Oh, man, you're already so close.
Adam:
I'm just trying to think. I'm trying to picture a dairy product that can be picked up in the hand and placed in the mouth.
Marc:
More importantly, a dairy product that can plop.
Adam:
It needs to have a certain texture in order to plop. So I'm picturing like a mozzarella ... little mozzarella ball.
Marc:
Oh, that's a good guess, but that's not quite it.
Adam:
Okay, take it away.
Marc:
Here's what happened. I was giving the boys yogurt, so you were close.
Adam:
Classic, check it move.
Marc:
As I was spooning the yogurt into their little plate... I make a lot of mouth sounds and as I was spooning it I was just going plop, plop. And then they were kind of repeating, and it was a fun thing.
Adam:
Onomatopoeia.
Marc:
Yeah, exactly. And they immediately started taking the spoons, big fat spoons of yogurt and saying, "Plop, plop," and just banging the spoons on the table.
Adam:
Yogurt everywhere. Spraying.
Marc:
And so, yogurt ... Yeah. And when you get a good ... off of a table, yogurt can really fly.
Adam:
It's like a paint splatter.
Marc:
It got really messy, really fast. And so to try to distract them away from that game, I started saying, "Plop it in your mouth. Plop it in your mouth." These little things that I yell out sounding like a complete idiot.
Adam:
Plop it in your mouth, dude.
Marc:
They never seem to help the situation. But I said it, "Plop it in your mouth."
Adam:
That was really good. Sorry I didn't have a big outburst of laughter. In retrospect, I should have because it was a really strong one. All right, let's have number two.
Marc:
I was changing my son, one of my sons, and oftentimes to get them to be chill, usually what we do is we say, "Grab a toy, bring it with you. You can hold a toy."
Adam:
You were changing a two, right?
Marc:
You know, I'm just looking at my notes and I can't recall if it was a number one or a number two.
Adam:
So it doesn't even matter to the story.
Marc:
I don't think it matters for the story. So I was changing him, and I saw it happen and there just wasn't much I could do about it. But he just slowly reached ... he just took the toy, which was a little dump truck toy that we have, and he just slowly reached down and he just set it on his penis. And I had just taken the diaper off. So whatever was in there, be it one or two, it's a little dirty.
Adam:
Of course it is. Unsanitary.
Marc:
Suddenly there was just a dump truck on the penis, and I just said, "Don't put the dump truck on your penis."
Adam:
So you went right for it. You're using the word. You don't sugar coat it.
Marc:
Oh yeah, I go right for it. They know what it is. They know penis, they know balls, and they know butthole.
Adam:
Butthole. That's so good. That is brilliant.
Marc:
Yeah. I don't know. It just happened. I saw it happening. I had one hand on the diaper, another hand going for a wipe, and it was just ... It was almost more of like a sigh, like a, "Ugh." You know?
Adam:
You've done it again. Suddenly skin was bare and something needed to go there.
Marc:
Nice cold plastic. But I will say this, he has not put another dump truck on his penis since that incident.
Adam:
Goddamn right.
Marc:
Maybe that one got through.
Adam:
Well dad's, you can find us at moderndadhood.com, or Apple podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Pocket Casts, Google, wherever you like to listen.
Marc:
We are all over the place.
Adam:
We would invite you to email us anytime. Tell us what you're liking. If you've got any good guest ideas, where can they reach us, Marc?
Marc:
Hey@moderndadhood.com.
Adam:
Thank you for all the ratings and reviews. Marc, can you give us an example of how you could tell a friend about the show? Run me a scenario.
Marc:
Sure. Yeah. Let's say you're on a Zoom call with a couple of coworkers. It's at the end. And you know what happens at the end, everybody says bye, one or two people leave, but there's always a straggler or two. You know what I'm talking about?
Adam:
Just hungry for social interaction. Changing their backgrounds.
Marc:
Messing around. All of a sudden they got the golden gate bridge back there. One of them's in the jungle, or whatever the grass blades are…
Adam:
Dipping out of the picture and then peeking in from the side.
Marc:
It's at that moment that you could look at Jenny from finance and you could say, "Hey Jenny, your husband, Dave. I'd listen to this podcast I really think Dave might like, it's called Modern Dadhood. I'm going to send you an email about it after the Zoom call."
Adam:
That is how that can be done.
Adam:
Oh, tell us your favorite dad joke. We want to hear it. Leave us a voicemail at (603) 431-5465. We're collecting dad jokes to be used in an upcoming episode. They will be judged by Marc and myself, and comedian Justin McKinney, which is awesome. And the top three winners are going to win a prize from BruMate, which is awesome too. Again, (603) 431-5465.
Marc:
We can also say thank you to Caspar Babypants, Spencer Albee, and Bubby Lewis for contributing to the music that you hear on Modern Dadhood.
Adam:
A big thank you to Pete Morse at Red Vault Audio for pressing all the right EQ buttons to make us sound delicious. And we always say most importantly, thank you to you for listening.
Marc:
We say it because we mean it and it's true.
Adam:
Happy Mother’s Day, Moms!