Modern Dadhood

The Gang’s All Here | Sean Carrillo on Beck, Channing, and Step-Fatherhood

Episode Summary

Sometimes, two people fall in love and choose to get married, one or both of those people have young children from a previous relationship, and a wonderful new blended family is formed. But it’s not always so clear cut. Enter Sean Carrillo, a media maker, technical director, writer, former-famous-coffee-shop-owner, and family man. Sean also happens to be the stepfather of accomplished musician Beck and artistic polymath Channing Hansen. Sean joins the Modern Dadhood conversation to discuss his family of artists, and how his parenting experience has felt a lot like hanging out with a group of friends. Also, find out why Marc’s wife is less than thrilled with her doctors!

Episode Notes

Sometimes, two people fall in love and choose to get married, one or both of those people have young children from a previous relationship, and a wonderful new blended family is formed. But it’s not always so clear cut. Enter Sean Carrillo, a media maker, technical director, writer, former-famous-coffee-shop-owner, and family man. Sean also happens to be the stepfather of accomplished musician Beck and artistic polymath Channing Hansen. Sean joins the Modern Dadhood conversation to discuss his family of artists, and how his parenting experience has felt a lot like hanging out with a group of friends. Also, find out why Marc’s wife is less than thrilled with her doctors!

Episode 40 is a very special and personal one for Adam, and he wastes no time sharing about it. The episode is a continuation of Modern Dadhood’s exploration on what it means to be a stepfather. In a sharp contrast to Episode 39’s guest Rafael Torres, the guys welcome Sean Carrillo into the conversation. At 60 years old, Sean’s career has taken him from the performing arts to commercial and film production, directing, and editorial, to curating live events... and that’s only the tip of the iceberg. Sean has been a stepfather for almost 40 years, and his family dynamic is far from typical. His wife Bibbe Hansen is a performance artist and actress, a protégé of Andy Warhol when she was young. Bibbe’s late father is Al Hansen, the renowned Fluxus artist. And his stepchildren are artist Channing Hansen, and musician Beck—a longtime favorite of Adam’s.

Sean shares about growing up in Los Angeles in the 60s and 70s, meeting Bibbe while a member of the performance art group ASCO, and marrying her in the early 1980s when Beck and Channing were 12 and 10 years old, respectively. In a particularly unique step-parenting situation, Sean found that hanging with Bibbe and the boys, along with Rain Whittaker, a family friend who they took under their wing, felt more like hanging out with a group of peers than a  traditional parents/kids dynamic. Topics include:

•  The idea of marrying someone with kids close to you in age
•  Beck and Channing’s biological father David Campbell
•  Los Angeles’ Troy Cafe, owned by Sean and Bibbe
•  Did being a stepfather change when Beck and Channing began seeing commercial success?
•  Beck and Channing as fathers
•  And more

To close out an epic episode, in a spinoff of the hit segment Did I Just Say That Out Loud?, Marc shares a story about his wife, his twin boys, a surgery, and some less than desirable operating conditions.


[Episode Transcript]

Sean Carrillo
Bibbe Hansen
Channing Hansen
Beck and Al Hansen: Playing With Matches
Troy Cafe
Red Vault Audio
Caspar Babypants
Spencer Albee

Episode Transcription


Marc: How are you, sir? 


Adam: Me? 


Marc: Yeah. 


Adam: I'm good. I mean, you know, considering.


Marc: Considering? 


Adam: Considering... The state of the world. 


Marc: Oh, that. 


Adam: Yeah. This podcast is called Modern Dadhood, it's an ongoing conversation about the joys, challenges and general insanity of being a dad in this moment. And my name is Adam Flaherty and I'm a father of two daughters who are seven years old and four years old. How about you, man? 


Marc: My name is Marc Checket and I am a dad to twin boy toddlers. Well, wait, did we determine last episode that my kids are three years old now? Are we still seeing toddlers? Should I say toddlers? I graduate something new. 


Adam: I think it's sort of dealer's choice. But like they do still toddle, right? 


Marc: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 


Adam: Yeah, they're toddlers. 


Marc: OK, all right. We'll stick. We'll stick to it. 


Adam: Well, Marc, if I can call you that, thank you for the air quotes. Our last episode explored step-parenting and featured our conversation with Rafael, who's in the thick of it with his two young daughters. 


Marc: Pretty new territory for for me, that's for sure. You as well. A little bit. 


Adam: Sure. Yeah. So I thought it would be really fun to explore the opposite end of the bonus parent spectrum, speaking with somebody who has grown step kids and step grandkids. 


Marc: Is that a phrase? 


Adam: I think it is now. 


Marc: You just said it and we're recording... So boom. 


Adam: I didn't ask Sean that, but... 


Marc: I'm sure they call him Grandpa or Grampa or Gramps or Papa or Peepaw. 


Adam: Peepaw! I haven't heard that one. 


Marc: You never heard Peepaw? 


Adam: I've heard Meemaw. 


Marc: Meemaw. Well, that's... you know,  the the Pee version of Me. Didn't sound right. 


Adam: So our guest, Sean Carrillo, also has a particularly unique story. He has had an impressive career centered around art and performance and film. He's married to Bibbe Hansen, who is an absolute legend and an artist by any definition. And Sean also happens to be Beck's stepdad. 


Marc: Yes. 


Adam: You don't think that's cool at all? 


Marc: It's it's amazing. It's pretty amazing. I was blown away when I heard you first mention Sean. And then when I looked into when Sean came into Beck's life, I think I was more blown away because Beck was 12 years old. 


Adam: Right. 


Marc: Sean was 22. And I think back to when I was 22, I basically was a 12 year old, right? Still at 22. Like stepping into that role. I just, I mean, I have no idea. I have no idea. 


Adam: Well, lucky for you, Marc, you and our friends listening will get to hear about it first hand from Sean in just a few minutes. Alright, so admittedly, this is a bit of a geek out episode for me, because almost anyone who knows me--and it's been this way since I was about 13 years old--probably knows that Beck is far and away my favorite musician. Did you know this about me? 


Marc: I've gathered it. I mean, we haven't talked at length about it, but I've heard you mention Beck many times fondly. 


Adam: Is it because every time we see each other, I'm wearing a Beck t-shirt? 


Marc: It's that... I've seen your Beck lower back tattoo. You should. You should get... 


Adam: You know, who wouldn't love that? My wife. 


Marc: Really? 


Adam: Sarah would not like that. 


Marc: Come on. 


Adam: But it's been that way for years. The truth is, I got into it in in the mid 90s, the song Loser gained popularity instantly and something about it grabbed my attention. You know, it was just different. And I knew that I want to learn more about this musician. I bought Mellow Gold, he had a couple of other records come out on smaller labels around that same time, and they were all so different. And then Odelay came out in '96. And I remember anxiously awaiting the release of that album. And when it came out, just like instantly falling in love. And it wasn't just like the music. It was the it was the packaging, you know, it was the artwork. It was the music videos. It was the all the references to other musicians and artists, you know, and even they toured the album for several years, like relentlessly. And it was the personas that the band took on. And all of their theatrics on stage and like antics, the whole thing was just... It was just kind of magical to me. And, you know, like as a teenager experiencing all this stuff in such formative years, some of it is probably nostalgia to a certain extent. But I've followed his career for many years now, and he just remains one of the absolute most creative artists out there and has remained relevant and respected by so many people, too. 


Marc: Oh, yeah. Yeah. He never ceases to amaze. So I got into... Mutations was a name of a record. 


Adam: Yeah. Beautiful record. One of my absolute favorite. 


Marc: Yeah. And then after that was... 


Adam: So after Mutations, the following year was Midnite Vultures. 


Marc: Midnite Vultures. That's the name. Yeah. And then Sea Change came out. 


Adam: Yep. 


Marc: In that transition that he made floored me. That was the period of time that I was like, okay... I need to absorb everything and get like the full story of where he came from Loser to now. Sea Change is such a good record. 


Adam: Sea Change is a masterpiece. And what you just described, that total shift from record to record that caught your attention and made you want to know more, like that's the same thing that happened to me when Odelay came out. And then he followed it up with Mutations. Yeah, it was just it was something that seemed so rare and so cool. And for me and for, you know, several of my friends who are also into Beck, it just felt like it was ours. So anyway, I've had a chance to see many shows over the years and to meet Beck a handful of times. Whenever possible, my sister April and I go to see him. It's sort of a special sibling thing that we have. And in 1998, so really only a few years into my appreciation of his music, there was this game changer that happened. It was a really interesting kind of, I guess, peek behind the curtain a little bit. You know, it's one thing to spend a lot of time with somebody's body of work and then to have the opportunity to to shake their hand. But I attended this once in a lifetime event celebrating his family's art and really connected with the Hansen family. 


Marc: Yeah. 


Adam: And the last thing I'll say about it, I promise, is even as you get older, your priorities shift a little bit. You know, maybe you get married, you have kids, whatever, and you realize that regardless of someone's notoriety or celebrity, that people are just people. Maybe some of that magic goes away a little bit. But, you know, I have continued to to follow Beck's career across 25 years. And I mean, even in my late 30s, 90% of my t-shirts have Beck's name on them, you know... And it's just been really inspiring to see him continue to put out really thoughtful records that are so forward thinking and just hold that respect of so many important people in the music industry who really understand not just the business side of music, but the integrity of the art. 


Marc: So let's fucking get to it. 


Adam: Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. I knew this was going to drag on a little bit long. So I thought it would be really fun to combine my appreciation, my long, decades long appreciation for Beck's music with our podcast, obviously on the theme of fatherhood and to chat with his stepdad, Sean Carrillo, about marrying Bibbe in his early 20s and his parenting experience with her sons, Beck and Channing. 


Marc: I'm just sitting here wondering when can I hear this conversation? Because I did not have the good fortune of being a part of it. So let's have it. 


Adam: Well, with your permission, I will go ahead and depress the play button right now. 


Marc: Permission granted. 


As part of our series, examining stepfatherhood or stepdad hood to keep with our theme, I'm speaking today with a stepfather to now grown children. In fact, he's actually a stepgrandfather though. I don't know if that's a phrase that people use or not. Sean, thank you so much for joining me in this conversation.


You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me.


My pleasure. How are you and Bibbe doing?


We're great. I mean, apart from the pandemic, of course.


Sean, you have done so many things across your career. I'd love to have you share a bit about yourself and your family. So maybe sort of just the Sean Carrillo elevator pitch.


Well, I started out in East Los Angeles, California. I'm going way back to the beginning here. You realize that this is prehistory. Born in Boyle Heights and raised there. I met a few people when I was in college who turned out to be extremely formative to my career and who became friends and mentors, and that's how my path sort of began in life when I was about 18 or 19 years old. Then when I was 22, I was performing with the group that I had joined named ASCO, and Bibbe Hansen came to one of our performances. We met at the show. That was around fall of 1982. And then the next year we began to become acquainted with each other, and I met the boys, and then around 1984 we decided to move in together and create a life.


I'm going to take a little bit of an aside here to provide some context to our listeners. My knowledge of Sean Carrillo began in the mid '90s, and when I was 16 years old, my older sister April took me from Portland, Maine where we lived, down to New York City for the opening of the Beck & Al Hansen, Playing with Matches exhibit, which was a life-changing experience for me. Beck's grandfather, Al Hansen, was a renowned visual artist in the style known as Fluxus, and Beck growing up spent spans of time with his grandfather and inherited this knowledge and this appreciation for that style of art. So in the late '90s, this exhibit toured a handful of cities around the world displaying the art of Beck and his grandfather, Al Hansen. There's a wonderful book that was published, Beck & Al Hansen, Playing with Matches, which I'll link to in the show notes. Okay. So, in fall of 1998, I was 16 years old or I guess just about 16, and my sister and I drove down from Portland to Manhattan to see this amazing installation in person, which was followed by this happening which was this incredibly immersive art experience, non-repeatable, non-replicable once in a lifetime experience filled with artists, and musicians, and creative people of all types. It featured performances from Beck, and Channing, and all sorts of other well-known creative and brilliant people. So Playing with Matches is where I met Beck for the first time and I've had the pleasure of meeting him a number of times since, but I also met his mother Bibbe who is Sean's wife of many years. The whole thing was just an incredibly special and surreal experience. And Sean, I don't believe that we met at the event, but I'm sure you were there.


Yep. I was there, and you're right. It was a very special experience.


I don't know. I don't have another word for it. It was magical.




Bibbe and I have stayed in touch periodically, and at one point I started following your work, Sean, a bit as my career took me into video production, and editorial, and directing. And I was aware that there was some crossover with your career and your skillset. So, perhaps I stood to learn a thing or two from you.


That's where you were wrong. I'm going to learn from you.


And here we are having the chance to talk about your family and your fatherhood experience. So, I just want to take the opportunity to say thank you to you and to Bibbe for always being so kind and so down to earth over the years. It means a lot.


Well, you're welcome.


Okay. So taking it back to the beginning of your relationship with Bibbe. I know it was a wild time to be in your 20s in Los Angeles. Tell me a little bit about that and sort of the early days of your relationship and the family of people who you cultivated around you.


I don't think it sounds ... I mean, now I suppose in reading about it, it might sound unique or strange, but to us, it was who we were. As I said, I had met a group of people when I was in college, so I was like 19, and they became my mentors and I joined their performing group called ASCO. Bibbe's dad was actually a fan of theirs, so that's how that happened because Al Hansen introduced Bibbe to ASCO. So I met Bibbe and then ... She was fascinating, and interesting, and the kids were young then, and I met them, and they were just incredible. I remember the first time I met Channing, he was wearing these skinny little one-piece turquoise-colored new wave glasses. Because this was like '82, but he was only in '82 Channing was 10. I'm like, "Who is this kid? He's got super cool shades on," and both he and Beck were just super smart, amazing manners, and just able to talk. They were like grownups basically, like adults. So, you could hang out with them even though they were 10 and 12, just like hanging out with anyone else.


At any point, was it daunting to consider that? I mean, you were a young man too, and Beck and Channing we're in the 10 or 12 year old range.


I'm 10 years older than Beck, exactly.


Was that intimidating to you to think about marrying somebody who had sons who were 10 and eight years younger?


No. Like I said, we all got along. Later on thinking about it, it would definitely blow my mind. Occasionally, I'd say to the kids when they were like, I don't know, 27 or something, I'd say to them, "When I was your age, I'd already been your stepdad for three years." And they were like, "What? No, that's too weird." But yeah, it was easy and it seemed natural, but in retrospect I realized, oh, I was pretty young to take on a wife, and two kids, and soon to be three, and then all the neighbor kids, and cousins, and friends. Yeah, we pretty much ran a teenage club for kids somewhere in there in the '80s.


Had you ever contemplated in your teenage years or your early 20s before meeting Bibbe having a family, having children of your own?


I never thought about it much because probably I was very selfish. I came from a big family. I have eight brothers and sisters, and I have tons of nieces and nephews. I became an uncle when I was eight years old. So I just always liked kids and had kids around and just never thought about it being a big deal whether we had kids or not. When I met Bibbe and she already had two, I was like, "Perfect. Let's go." I skipped a hard part.


You alluded to two becoming three a couple of minutes ago.


Yes. What happened was, we met a young lady through Channing actually, and she happened to be right in between them. So Beck was 14, Channing was 12, she was 13. Her name is Rain. And she just happened to be in a difficult situation in terms of like a place to live, and parental units, and all that, so we didn't formally adopt, but we said, "Yeah, you should just come live with us," and all the parents involved agreed and it made perfect sense. So she stayed with us for the next five years.


Do you stay in touch with Rain?


Yeah, absolutely. She lives about 15 minutes away and I see her all the time.


So cool. So what you've described sounds more like a group of peers with a lot of shared interests and influences. A lot more sort of free flowing rather than this structured hierarchy where the parents are the authority figures. To the extent that you're comfortable talking about it, I'd love to hear about the difference between that dynamic and the dynamic when the kids were growing up and spending more time with their biological dad, David Campbell.


Sure. Honestly, the way that Bibbe and David raised the kids... And I'll take this moment to say, David is an amazing person and I love David very much. He is incredibly talented and just a brilliant dad, and I learned from him basically. But he and Bibbe did an amazing job before I got there. So for me, I feel like the work was all done. Obviously there are boundaries, and everyone expects boundaries to be applied, and adhered to, and all that, but Bibbe's way of doing things and David's way was not based on pain, or force, or punishment, or any of that. It was all about, this is something that can enhance your life and the lives of people around you. I think they sort of took parenting from a different angle as opposed to always coming down and having to be the bad cop or playing off each other, good cop, bad cop. They had two good cops so I didn't have to do much. I really just came in and just said, "Is there another cop uniform around?" And they said, "Yeah, but it's over there on the shelf," and I just picked it up and it was fine.


So you and Bibbe have always at least seemingly crafted your lives around involvement with music, and art, and performance art. I think we would be remiss to not chat at least briefly about Troy Cafe, which you opened together in 1990. Tell me why you made the decision to open Troy and the reputation that it built over its tenure.


Because we were fools. No, I'm just kidding. We actually had ... So the coffee house phenomenon was just barely beginning in Los Angeles. At that time when we opened Troy, I think there were a total of maybe two or three coffee houses, but we decided to open our own because we wanted a place to hang out. And actually Channing is the one. Again, I have to give Channing credit here. If want to know anything about our family, Channing is pretty much the source of all good ideas. But he said, "Well, we all want a place to hang out. There's really no place to hang out. Why don't we just open our own?" So taking his advice, I was driving down the street one day and I saw a for rent sign on a building that was very familiar to me because the Atomic Cafe had been on the corner. And in the empty space was a place that used to be called DTLA, and both Bibbe and I had been there when we were young. We didn't know each other then but we both went there. So it was very familiar to me. It was just over the bridge from East LA. It was in Downtown LA in the little Tokyo section. And we just said, "Let's try it." So we rented out this space and it just so happened we were very lucky. I mean, I still feel lucky. It just so happened that the previous owners had left in the middle of the night and they left everything there, like everything. I mean, stove, refrigerator, dishes, glasses, forks, knives, spoons. The only thing they didn't have was an espresso machine. So Bibbe and I were like, "Okay, well, let's go get an espresso machine," and then pretty much you have a coffee house tables, and chairs, and everything. We developed a kind of a local following and we featured local acts. Then through Beck, who was also playing at the cafe at the time and playing different venues in town, we met some people from Seattle area and Olympia area. We also met friends of his, like That Dog when they were around and they played the cafe many times. Then we also met someone that I know you know, and that's The Presidents of the USA.


Oh, yes!


Yeah, he played with Beck. I remember one show. He's an awfully nice, nice fellow.


He is. Yeah, yeah. I know that Chris Ballew toured with Beck for a period of time.


Absolutely. After Beck started to become a little more well-known, after they started playing Loser on the radio and stuff, then he would still play the cafe but at that time, there were so many people. I mean, the cafe, I think it had a legal capacity of like I don't know, 40, but that would have been packed. That would have included the patio and everything. It was a small place. But after he released Loser and then people wanted to come by, it would get really crowded, so we'd take out all the tables and chairs and make it just standing room only, and then in contravention of fire department policy, of course, but we would fit about 100 people in there.


I love that even opening a coffee shop was this family affair and an opportunity to spend time together. As Channing and Beck grew and started to follow their passions and both found their own versions of success, how did that impact your relationship as their stepfather?


I don't think it changed it much at all because what we do, or what we did, or chose to do is something that was always there and that we knew would always continue. Channing's sort of two halves. I mean, he's many, many faceted, but one-half is the science guy and the other is the art guy. And he managed to combine the two. Knitting is his chosen medium for making his works of art, but he also incorporates such incredible and fascinating ways as to what he's going to knit or how he's going to knit. He uses algorithms. He uses computers. He uses... And I remember at one time he was using IBM punch cards from like the first computer that he had somehow hooked up to a loom so that the random patterns that were once necessary to do complex computations was now going to be used to provide what colors and patterns were used in this knitting. Just crazy.


Talk about mind blowing!


Yeah, I know! He still blows my mind. And he goes to where the sheep are. He sheers the sheep. He dyes the wool. He spins the wool. It's nuts. He found a way to channel his creative energies into something that he loves doing, and I feel like Beck did very much the same. So they're both very lucky. I do remind them that they're both lucky. Not everyone gets to do what they love and pursue it for such a long time, and make money, and be able to survive. Bibbe has a good way of putting it. She just says, "Art is the family business," and I think that's a good way of putting it.


I read an interview with you at some point, I don't know how recent it was, that Channing has a child and you commented on how amazing of a father he is.


Yes. They're both amazing dads. I mean, I'm in awe of Channing, and Rain, and Beck, and I feel like I learned much more from them than they do from me, or did from me. That's for sure. Channing became a dad in 1994. So yeah, about 10 years before Beck. He was such a good dad and his son's all grown now. He's like 25. Beck's are still growing. Still at home, but they're on their way, boy. They're amazing as well.


How often do you get to spend time with your grandkids?


Channing's son we see all the time, but Beck's children, we would see when they came to New York and they came to New York often. Sometimes they'd be on tour with him and then of course, when we go to LA. So it's cool living in New York City because we do get to see each other more often than if we lived somewhere else I guess.


Sean, reflecting back, have you ever considered how your life might be different if Bibbe didn't have children when you got married?


No, I don't think so. I never thought of that. We were just always such a unit. It just seemed natural. I don't think personally it would have been as much fun. That's for sure.


What makes you most proud about your family?


That's a good question. I guess the fact that we could all at any time all these years later pick up the phone and just call or text each other whenever we want, and it's absolutely effortless. One thing I did think was odd when I was younger and growing up was how American kids, and when I say kids I mean in their 20s and 30s, would often dread going home for the holidays. They just thought it was a horrible thing, and something they had to endure, and it was bad, and I never understood that because for me that was the most fun time. So I guess one thing I'm happy about is that if time, and schedules, and all of that allow, we're all happy to get together on holidays. To me, we've adopted more of the Mexican attitude than the maybe sometimes American attitude toward families and getting together. It's just a pleasure. They're absolutely a pleasure to be around.


Sean, it's been so nice hearing from you about your very unique stepfatherhood experience. It seems like it's maybe non-traditional in a lot of ways, but when as you guys say, "Art is your family business," I suppose it seems really fitting. Thank you for being so open to sharing about that. Before we wrap, do you have any final words of wisdom on fatherhood that you've gathered over the years?


The opportunity you have to influence young lives and young minds as they grow, I think is a tremendous responsibility. I think if more people realized that how important that is, like you do, I think this would be a really cool place. And I think it's a tremendous thing that young people today can just step outside these traditional roles and think, well, what's best for the family, and most importantly, what's best for the kids? I like that we're able to be fluid in our roles today and I think that's a tremendous thing. So, thank you for having this podcast and for talking about something that I think is pretty cool, and for including stepdad's too.


My pleasure, and well said. Please give my best to Bibbe. I hope that you and your whole family remain healthy. I do look forward to staying in touch and maybe on the other side of this thing reconnecting in person one day. Thanks so much for your time, Sean.


You're welcome. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.


Adam: Well, I think it's it would be appropriate to transition into a segment that recurs. 


Marc: I do have a recurring segment. It's funny you should mention that. 


Adam: You have... you came prepared? 


Marc: I did. Why don't we transition? Do we have an all cat one? We do have an all cat one! Hit me with the all cat sting. [music sting] Thanks for that. 


Adam: Refreshing. 


Marc: Now I feel refreshed, yes, I have a I actually I would like to introduce a subsegment of a very popular segment called "Did I Just Say That Out Loud?" This is the subsegment, "Did I Just Hear That Out Loud?"


Adam: Okay. All right. Was this from a child or your wife? One of your wives? 


Marc: This was from Mrs. Checket. This was from my wife, Jamie. I was in this very room here where I'm recording right now. We call it the TV room. I was here. Jamie was in the next room with both kids. And it was fairly like quiet, like they were doing something together and they were all kind of focusing on something together. And I kind of knew that they were on the floor doing something over there. And then I heard a little bit of, you know, there was a din and I could tell there was a transition period going from one activity to the next. And kind of in a bit of a flustered manner, Jamie said, "You know what? You know what? It's a little messy in here for a surgery, okay?" And I thought... Okay. I can sort of ascertain that the children are doctors, that maybe they're playing sort of a doctor game, but it was one of those things where a lot of what was happening up until that point was just like a like a muffled blur. But those words kind of just stuck out just a little bit. I wasn't expecting to hear that phrase. 


Adam: Inquiring minds want to know... on whom were they performing surgery? 


Marc: I believe the surgery was being performed by the kids on Jamie. 


Adam: Ohhhh. 


Marc: I paid attention a little bit after I heard those words to try to figure it out. And I think that's I think that's what was going on. 


Adam: So she was feeling a little uneasy about the condition of the operating room. 


Marc: Yes, that's right. Surgery. That's right. I guess this was before the anesthesia really kicked in, I have to assume. 


Adam: Or maybe it was perfectly sterile and the anesthesia is what brought that comment out of her. 


Marc: She was just about to go under and she started in with a little gibberish, was what... 


Adam: Probably. Right. Yeah. 


Marc: Knowing knowing my boys, they probably had that room in tip top shape. 


Adam: Toddling here and there. Yeah. 


Marc: Toddling around, a couple of three year olds just toddling around. 


Adam: I don't blame her for calling them out on that. 


Marc: No, you should. If you're ever about to go under and you look around and you're just uneasy with if there's just a general disarray, you see a dust bunny or something, you say, OK, time out, doc.


Adam: Bring me back, bring me back! 


Marc: Put the scalpel down. Yeah, yeah. You know what? It's a little messy in here for a surgery. Well, we're at the end, we're at the end, what should we do about it, Adam? 


Adam: Let's tell our listeners that they can find Modern Dadhood anywhere they listen to their podcasts, be that Apple or Stitcher or Spotify or Pocket Casts or Google or Amazon or Overcast or... Come on! 


Give me one more... you're almost at the magic number eight!. 


Adam: Oh, I don't know. 


Marc: OK, OK. Castielicious. Oh, Pod World. Oh oh, The Wall. Your local Wilden's bookstore... 


Adam: You can also find all episodes at ModernDadhood,com and if you fish around there for a few minutes, you might find yourself buying a Modern Dadhood t-shirt or that Dadhoodie. 


Marc: You know what I'd like to say here, Adam, if I may? Just really quickly, while you're on your computer machine subscribing, why don't you leave us a rating or a review? That would be that would be huge. Also, word of mouth. Word of mouth is huge. 


Adam: Huge thanks as always to Caspar Babypants and to Spencer Albee for the music in Modern Dadhood, to Pete Morse at Red Vault Audio for mixing us, making a sound like we're in the same place, having a good ol' goof. And thanks to Sean Carrillo for joining us to talk about his step-fatherhood experience. 


Marc: And thanks to you for listening.