How do you define creativity? If we encourage our kids to be creative, will they be more successful later in life? Adam and Marc explore the topic of creativity with Chris Ballew, lead singer of Presidents of the United States of America, creator of Caspar Babypants, and, dare we say, friend of the show. Also, the trials of talking to our kids about how to say no when something feels off. And what was Marc's childhood buffoonery that should have cursed him with gingivitis for life?
How do you define creativity? If we encourage our kids to be creative, will they be more successful in life? Adam and Marc explore the topic of creativity with Chris Ballew, lead singer of Presidents of the United States of America, creator of Caspar Babypants, and, dare we say, friend of the show. Also, the trials of talking to our kids about how to say no when something feels off. And what was Marc's childhood buffoonery that should have cursed him with gingivitis for life?
Episode 17 opens with a discussion on... you guessed it: creativity. Why is it important? How is it useful? How does teaching and encouraging creativity as dads help our kids in the long run? The guys waste no time introducing a guest who is celebrated frequently on the show, and who is a supremely creative being: Chris Ballew. A father of two, Chris shares stories of his stately tenure with Presidents of the United States of America, his time writing, recording, and performing Caspar Babypants, and of course, being a dad. Born to a line of musicians and immersed in music and art since birth, Augie and Josie Ballew have creativity in their blood. Now in their 20s, Chris explains how they have used that creativity to carve their own paths. Chris shares a personal philosophy on giving your children the tools for success and then releasing them into the world—but confesses that in his own experience, letting go is easier said than done. Other conversation topics include:
• Involving your kids in your own creativity
• How to encourage creativity in your kids when you’re not an inherently creative person
• The Ballew kids' involvement in Caspar songwriting and shows
• Chris’ recent fatherhood joys and challenges
• Letting your creation run free
• The future of Caspar Babypants
In an installment of So That’s a Thing Now, Adam chronicles his six year old daughter’s curiosity around “red flags” and “green flags” as described in a book by Zack and Kimberly King.
There’s still time to submit your dad jokes to the Modern Dadhood voice mailbox at 603-431-5465. Along with the help of guest judge Comedian Juston McKinney, the top 3 winners will receive a swell prize from BrüMate.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
LINKS:
Caspar Babypants
Babypants on FB
New Album: BUG OUT!
Tiny Song Jukebox
Chris Ballew
Chris' Art!
Chris on Instagram
Presidents of the United States of America
Kate Endle Illustration & Fine Art
I Said No!
How To Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk
Why Creativity is the Most Important Skill in the World
Red Vault Audio
Spencer Albee
Marc:
Here we are.
Adam:
It feels like we never left, in some ways.
Marc:
In some ways. And in other ways, it feels like we have left.
Adam:
In other ways, it feels like we haven't really been in very great touch for about a week and a half.
Marc:
That's right.
Adam:
Parents, you are listening to Modern Dadhood. It is an ongoing conversation about the joys, the challenges, and the general insanity of being a dad in this moment.
Marc:
My name is Marc Checket. I am a dad of twin boy toddlers, and you?
Adam:
And my name is Adam Flaherty. I have two daughters, six years old and three years old. We're recording remotely, yet again.
Marc:
I'm listening to the thunder.
Adam:
And Marc is sitting in a bathroom next to a window where there is light thunder happening outside.
Marc:
It's just a wonderful low rumble of thunder off in the distance right now. And also...
Adam:
Thirst.
Marc:
Mm-hmm.
Adam:
That's a great sound.
Marc:
Oh, it's a good sound. Adam, I feel like we've spent some time together on Zoom, but it's been a lot of interviews, and it hasn't been just me and you.
Adam:
This is nice.
Marc:
It hasn't been me and you just doing this part of it, where we do the intros to the interviews and we just talk about our lives and our kids and stuff and catch up. It's been, I feel like it's been a minute since that.
Adam:
Yeah, it's great. This is, there's a lot less pressure. When you're talking to famous people, everything's got to be spot on, but when it's just us...
Marc:
That's right.
Adam:
We can just be us.
Marc:
We can be total ass-hats.
Adam:
We want to remind all the dads out there, we're working on an episode about dad jokes, and we really need for you to call in and leave us a voicemail on our voicemail box with your best dad joke. The phone number is (603) 431-5465. The ones that we think are the funniest will make it onto the show. Our friend, comedian Juston McKinney, he's going to be our guest and he'll help us judge. And the top three winners will get a prize.
Marc:
What kind of prize, Adam?
Adam:
You're holding one in your hand right now.
Marc:
That's true, I am.
Adam:
I only know because I'm seeing you on video.
Marc:
BruMate, you could win one of multiple types of BruMate items. Adam, knock, knock.
Adam:
You have one at the ready?
Marc:
Yeah.
Adam:
Who's there?
Marc:
The interrupting cow.
Adam:
The interrupting-
Marc:
Moo.
Adam:
You didn't. I'm excited for that episode. We've been getting some really funny submissions, so I can't wait to see where we end up.
Marc:
Okay, Adam, I have a question for you.
Adam:
Ask me anything.
Marc:
What would you say is the most in-demand skill right now?
Adam:
Skittle, the candy?
Marc:
No, no, skill, skill. What's the most in-demand skill?
Adam:
I was trying to... I was suddenly like, "Oh man, is it orange? Is it green?"
Marc:
It's got to be the green one.
Adam:
Yeah, I think it's green.
Marc:
Here's what I used to do. I used to line my lower lip in front of my teeth.
Adam:
Oh, that's bad.
Marc:
I was putting dip in and I would just line it up with Skittles. That's what I would do. And I would just hold them in there until they dissolved.
Adam:
And then you spit the juice out, right? Like into a spittoon, and it was just all the colors made it brown saliva.
Marc:
It was just like a rainbow of saliva just drooled out of my mouth.
Adam:
Any dental hygienists out there are cringing at that. I mean, you're mainlining that, all of those chemical sugars directly into your gums.
Marc:
Yeah, it was great.
Adam:
And that's why you have gingivitis, lifelong gingivitis.
Marc:
That's why all my front teeth are fake.
Adam:
So, the most in-demand skill?
Marc:
Yeah.
Adam:
I'll tell you what it is. It's coding.
Marc:
You're really close, it's cloud computing.
Adam:
Yeah.
Marc:
Which is sort of an obvious, but what would you think that the second most in-demand skill is?
Adam:
Plumbing.
Marc:
Creativity.
Adam:
That's such a generic term.
Marc:
It is a generic term.
Adam:
It's like saying being kind to others.
Marc:
Kindness.
Adam:
All kidding aside, it actually is... It is interesting that creativity is so high on that list, but I guess in some ways, it makes sense. I think that you and I, being in advertising and being sort of inherently creative people, in some ways, have a little bit of an advantage in that we are raising our kids in a way that opens their mind to creativity and sort of gets them thinking about the world within that creative framework. And whether they develop a passion for marketing or advertising like we have, or do something completely different, that way of thinking is going to benefit them.
Marc:
It's funny. I started to think about the question. Why is creativity an important thing?
Adam:
Right.
Marc:
I feel like ultimately where I landed was, it's important in terms of approaching a problem, a unique problem. And that happens all the time. There are always new problems that need to be solved, you know?
Adam:
In literally every line of work, creativity benefits the problem-solving process.
Marc:
Yeah. That's exactly right. You can be a mathematician and be creative.
Adam:
Well, that gets me really excited about this conversation. This is a really special and exciting episode for us. Our guest is somebody that, man, I have admired and followed for a really long time.
Marc:
When you were 16, did you have your staple set of cassette tapes and CDs that were always in the car?
Adam:
Yeah. I had an enormous binder of CDs.
Marc:
Dude, the Presidents' first record, their first album was just a part of my car. It was in the car, at the ready, any time I was going for a drive. There was something about those tunes that made every drive to the mall, drive to pick up my friends, Josh and Jared down the street, it just amplified every little insignificant drive that I was about to take to a much better level.
Adam:
And whenever you turned your car on, wherever it was on that cassette, there was not a dull moment on that record.
Marc:
No, that was one of those records you could listen, front and back, and then just do it again and do it again.
Adam:
And I was psyched to discover that honestly, every record that followed was the same thing. They just delivered. Those guys could not write a clunker if their lives depended on it. Presidents of the United States of America were something very special.
Marc:
They found their formula.
Adam:
I feel lucky to have gotten to see them a number of times with my sister and with my wife.
Marc:
Hey, did you know that he also does kids music?
Adam:
Shut your mouth.
Marc:
The singer for the Presidents of the United States of America, I'm talking about the singer.
Adam:
The bad one?
Marc:
Yeah. His name is Chris. He does kids music under the stage name, Caspar Babypants.
Adam:
I'm not even going to pretend. I actually, I think I said it on an earlier episode, one of our first few... But when he started Caspar Babypants, it was a number of years before I had kids but it was just something that I so looked forward to sharing with my kids one day. And obviously, as soon as my first daughter was born six and a half years ago, Caspar Babypants just became a huge part of our life. Like a constant, he was constantly on.
Marc:
Yeah. Yeah, I'll never forget when we dipped our toe into kids music. I think our first foray was, we just said, "Alexa, play kids music," I think is what we kind of just yelled across the room. And in the midst of one bad version of Wheels On The Bus after another came Stompy the Bear, I think it was.
Adam:
Love that tune.
Marc:
And we were like, "Hold the phone. What is this?" I immediately, as soon as I heard that guitar, along with the voice, I was like, "There's no way this is not the guy from Presidents of the United States of America. There's no way." So, I had to look it up immediately. And of course, I was right, but I was like, "We need to consume all of this. This is amazing music. I can't even believe this exists."
Adam:
Yeah. It is a treasure trove. I'm sure most of our listeners, if not all, already know about Caspar Babypants, but on the off chance that you don't, dads, check them out at BabypantsMusic.com or search Caspar Babypants on Spotify or YouTube. He's got lots of great music videos. You're going to be blown away. And he's got a huge catalog of music, including an album called Bug Out that was just released a couple of weeks ago. His work ethic is so admirable. His music and his visual art are so unique, and he gets a lot of love on Modern Dadhood for obvious reasons. And I'm so, so psyched to finally bring Chris Ballew onto the show.
Chris:
In five, four, three…
Adam:
Hello, Chris, how are you?
Chris:
Fantastic. How are you guys doing?
Adam:
We're great. Thanks for counting it down.
Chris:
My pleasure. We used to have that happen to us a lot when we were in the rock band and we'd be on TV shows and stuff. We'd always see this "five, four, three." And it was always that moment like, "Oh, I hope I don't screw it up."
Adam:
Reminds me of Wayne's world. They do that countdown thing. That's kind of a funny bit, but you said you're in a rock band? I only know of Caspar Babypants.
Chris:
Well, that's how I prefer it actually. But no, I was in a band called The Rolling Stones.
Marc:
Okay.
Chris:
Yeah. I was Charlie Watts's drum caddie. I would carry his drums for him. Very young. I was just like, I was like six months old. It was an amazing gig.
Marc:
You must have some upper body strength to do that at six months.
Chris:
Well, he was nice to me. He gave me the tiniest drums, little hand cymbals. I would just kind of carry them on a pillow. Yeah. I was in a rock band called The Presidents of the United States of America.
Adam:
And I've been a big, big fan for many, many years, decades even now. You are re-releasing on vinyl the first Presidents album right now. But between the Presidents re-release and three Caspar Babypants albums in queue, sounds like you're busy.
Chris:
Yeah. Well, I was busy. Now, I kind of made a big space where all that used to be. Yeah, so I'm having kind of a music break. In fact, I'm sitting at the desk in my studio, which I've dismantled my entire studio. I don't even have a recording studio set up now. I'm just toodling on the piano and drawing drawings, and taking a break from being Mr. Caspar Babypants for a little bit.
Marc:
Although I have seen a couple of new performances pop up on YouTube of your Tiny Song Jukebox.
Chris:
Yeah. On my website, I'm doing a thing called the Caspar Babypants Tiny Song Jukebox, huge collection of single-song live performance videos from my studio here. And the idea is that during this time, when I can't do shows, people can use that to create a show in their house. Some of the songs I preface with, "Here's an activity we can do." And some are just straight performances, but you can pick and choose the ones you want. You can listen to Stompy the Bear five times if you want. You can have the concert started and stopped whenever you need it to. So, I'm not doing streaming concerts or anything in general, but I'm doing this Tiny Song Jukebox is what I'm doing instead.
Adam:
So, you've got a son and a daughter.
Chris:
Uh-huh.
Adam:
Can you give us a little summary or a little glimpse into each of them?
Chris:
Well, let's see, Augie was born first, 1997. He's just turned 23 on Monday. He's very, very tall. He's gigantic. He's got a big fuzzy head of hair and a fuzzy beard. And he lives in Bellingham, which is about two and a half hours north of Seattle, with a bunch of friends. He went to college for a little while, but now he's just doing music and he builds and modifies guitars. And he's very talented at it.
Marc:
Ah, cool.
Chris:
He's not yet really looking to make a career out of it but that's kind of where he's at now. And he grew up around me and around... I mean, both my kids grew up around me just making music all the time, recording them. I have this incredible library of interviews I did, I don't know, maybe five or six times a year. I would do a little interview with the kids with a tape deck. Like, "What's your name? Where are we? What's your favorite color? What are we doing?"
Marc:
That's great.
Chris:
Yeah. And those have become legendary. A lot of funny moments from those made it into the... Me and my kids use those in everyday interactions like they're part of our history, so. Yeah, so he's a really good songwriter. And he's been in a bunch of bands playing all kinds of instruments, keyboards, bass, guitar. I don't think he's been a drummer yet. So, yeah, he's really followed in my footsteps. And he's about where I was when I was 23, kind of comfortable to be not achieving a great deal in classic success terms, but pushing myself creatively, and being kind of free to be just a little twig in the wind, if you will. And my daughter also grew up around me making all the music and stuff. She plays guitar and ukulele and is a really good singer. And she loves music. She doesn't really want to make a career out of it. It isn't her 100% thing, but it's definitely in her blood. And we sing songs together a lot. She went to camp, both my kids went to camp, summer camp, every year. And they would come home and they would sing songs that were in the camp songbook kind of under their breath as they walked around the house. And that time when they came home and were singing those songs, I was always listening like, "Hmm, what's that?" If they were public domain and they caught my ear, I would turn them into Caspar songs. And so, and she's also helped me make my videos. Josie is a really good production designer. She'll help me with the initial design of the characters and stuff and the color palettes and help me with editing. And she's good. She's really good at it. Really good at project management. I think she might end up on the label side.
Marc:
Nice.
Chris:
Maybe someday she'll sign my son to her label.
Adam:
So, when they were off in camp and in school growing up, did people know who they are? I mean, you have a very unique last name. Did people make the connection that they were part of your family?
Chris:
Yeah, I think so. They played it cool. They never said much about that. But then every once in a while, it would pop up in conversation that one of them would let slip that they let their friends know who their dad was and everybody freaked out. And so, that's flattering and stuff. I'm glad that wasn't a bigger part of their growing up. I don't think that's a super great thing for a kid to have hanging around their neck. You want to be yourself. You don't want to be the son of, or daughter of X, Y, Z, so. I've always said in a general sense, I'm really glad not to be classically famous. I always say that I am fame-ish, which means I get to do the fun stuff and I get to have people hear my music and I get to be creative for a living, but I don't have to worry about security detail for my kids as they walk to school, that kind of noise.
Adam:
Yeah. I wonder what age they were when they kind of realized that you do have a place in the history of music.
Chris:
Oh, I don't know. When Augie came along in '97, the Presidents broke up right after that and we didn't get back together again until 2003, so he would been six. So, probably then, I think he'd be old enough. Because then I would go on tour with the band and he would know that I was off doing that. I think Josie probably maybe a little later because she was only three at that time, so she probably didn't know what was going on.
Marc:
Was there a moment where you had to kind of sit down and explain to them a little bit? You were talking about going out on tour, so obviously there was maybe some kind of disruption in their lives. Was that something that you thought through ahead of time, like, "Oh, I got to sit them down and talk to them and"...
Chris:
Yeah, no, I didn't have a formal kind of like, "All right, kids, I'm a rockstar. Here's what that means."
Adam:
So, when you sort of shifted your main focus from Presidents to Caspar, was there ever a time where they took issue with their dad making music for all of the other kids and not something that was just theirs?
Chris:
No, I don't think so. They were really helpful with the Caspar thing in the early days. They were kind of older than the kids I was focusing on. I was focusing on zero to six-year-olds, and they were 8 to 11. So, I wasn't in their territory. I was in a different territory. I was in the diaper territory and they were in the starting to get cool territory. I released my first record in 2009. So, I was starting to record that and write it in 2008. And Josie actually was pretty active on that record. She wrote and sang on two of the songs, I think at least two, and even on some upcoming albums have songs that Augie wrote around that time that were kind of in the vein of Caspar Babypants, that I've kind of finally modified and made into something fresh for the future Caspar albums.
Marc:
What was that process like? Them coming to you and saying, "Oh, I have a song I wrote. I think it's a Caspar Babypants song."
Chris:
Well, I kind of encouraged it. I would be like, "Hey, if you want to write a song and go on the record." And that would kind of be the inspiration, and it was something to do. Josie, one day, had her cousin Claire over and I was trying to entertain them. And I was like, "If you guys write a song, maybe we'll put it on the album." So, they went off and wrote like three songs and came back and showed them to me. And one of them did make it on the record and got made into a video and was kind of like a little bit of a hit at that time, Free Like A Bird.
Adam:
Oh, great tune. Can you describe a little bit about what your upbringing was like in terms of sort of how it pertains to the topic of creativity? Do you grow up in a very creative household? I mean, you're obviously an innately creative human being and it comes out in so many forms. Is that due in part to your upbringing?
Chris:
I think so. I mean, that album... Actually, that actual album right there, that Sgt. Pepper's album I got when it came out when I was two and a half in 1967. And so, I just existed inside that album for years. And that album kind of really taught me how transportive songs can be, how songs can be setting off movies in your head where you hallucinate what they're singing about. I mean, I saw everything that they were singing about, in my own way, in my head.
Marc:
Right.
Chris:
So, that was really the spark. And then, in the atmosphere of my home, music was definitely there. My mom was a piano player. She was into classical music. My dad was a guitar player. He was into bluegrass and old country-western. No drums. He always said if it had drums, it's not country. So, he was into the kind of country that was around when Elvis started to break in the mid-'50s, that sort of souped-up hillbilly stuff. So, yeah, I had this classical and this hillbilly thing going on, which you can definitely hear on my albums. I mean, the Caspar albums, and even Presidents, I guess, a little bit. So, that, yeah, they were both super encouraging.
Chris:
My mom got me into taking piano lessons when I was four. I was kind of being groomed to be a classical piano player. But around the age of 14, I picked up an electric guitar and I was like, "Oh, that's way better." So, and then my dad, I'll never forget this one moment when I was practicing a Scott Joplin piece at the piano and I could not get this seventh, this chord that was in there, I just kept doing it wrong, kept doing it wrong. And I finally had a freakout and I threw the music down. I was like, "That's it. I quit. I'm not playing music. I'm never doing it again." And my dad, who didn't really interject a lot, kind of beckoned me into his den and gave me this, like, "You're going to go back in there and you're going to figure out that chord and you're going to go on because you are meant to do this."
Marc:
Wow.
Chris:
And I did. And I did. Ooh, I'm getting a little verklempt just talking about that. They both passed away, so I like thinking about them.
Adam:
But it sounds like the way that you handled encouraging your kids to be musical and creative was... Sounds like you didn't put pressure on them in that way. You sort of let them feel it out their own way and explore it to whatever extent they wanted to.
Chris:
Yeah. I really, really did not like piano lessons. I did not like practicing. I mean, I see the value in it now, I guess. I mean, but I could have been turned on to all that music. I was playing classical and ragtime. I could have been turned on to that by listening to records just as easily without all the fighting about practicing and the stress of going to my lesson, having not prepared. So, I decided to spare my kids all that. I mean, occasionally they've had lessons, Augie's had a singing lesson or two, actually from the teacher who taught the lead singer of Vampire Weekend.
Adam:
Oh, wow.
Chris:
So, that was cool. I think he's a great singer. I've only had one singing lesson. It was an hour-long thing, and this woman taught me how to use my breathing apparatus and that's all I needed. So, sometimes all you need is one, and there's no stress, but you get a little bit of your perception opened up to a new way of thinking. So, that was kind of my approach.
Adam:
I'm imagining that that happened in a moment of the Presidents just got offered a record deal and you had an "Oh shit" moment. Like, "I need to quickly figure out how to do this the correct way."
Chris:
It was a little later than that, actually. It was after we got signed and we were playing a lot and I was losing my voice. And I was like, "Okay, I need to learn how to actually breathe." Actually, "I need to learn how to sing" is what I thought. But it really was about breathing and passing air through your vocal cords rather than generating them from your... sound from your vocal cords. Yeah. And it was a miracle. It totally worked. So, yeah, if anybody's struggling with singing, learn how to breathe.
Adam:
Can you think of any words of advice for parents who maybe aren't in a creative field and aren't particularly creative people, but want to encourage their kids to be creative and just don't really know how to go about it?
Chris:
Well, I would definitely, step one is expand the definition of creativity to include things that are not music and art and dance and theater, but stuff like making soup, painting a room, decorating your room, things that you do every day anyway, how you eat, how you dress. Those can all be creative acts. But I think people are performing creative acts a lot more than they think. So, you could start there. It doesn't... To promote creativity doesn't mean you have to take up music, art, or acting or dance as a profession, or filmmaking. But you can. So, that would be my first piece of advice. Just kind of expand the definition. There's a really great book. I think it's called How to Fly a Horse. My buddy, Joel, recommended it to me and it's really good. It's about creativity and this idea that it's bigger than the artistic disciplines.
Marc:
Okay. So, we kind of have this line that we spit out at the beginning of our episodes about what Modern Dadhood means to us and what the show is supposed to be about. And we have this line about it being the joys, the challenges, and the general insanity of what it means to be a dad at this particular moment in time. We're wondering if there's a recent dad joy that you could share with us. And maybe even to the other side of it, is there a recent challenge that you could share?
Chris:
Well, the recent joy was talking to my son, yeah, on Monday, on his birthday. And he held up and showed me the guitar that he's been working on for like two years. And it is beautiful. It's got inlay, it's got these fabric-covered pickups, really interesting shape that he invented himself. So, he built the whole thing from scratch. I was very proud of him, not only because he followed it through, but because the guitar is beautiful and it sounds amazing.
Chris:
And then, a challenge has kind of been, I guess, a challenge by proxy, really, it's just Josie being so pro at managing her own problems. We had a joke when she was little, I would be kind of hovering over her, trying to help her and she'd say, "Quit fathering me."
Adam:
Okay.
Chris:
And she was trying to say bothering, but it came out fathering. So, we always ever since, would be like, "Stop fathering me." And so, I... Both of them, they're grown and gone and I am simultaneously joyful. I feel joy that I did... I think I did a really good job and I think they are good people. And I made a couple of good people, which is the whole point of making children, really, to think, "Well, I got to put a couple of good ones in the world before I go." It's a challenging transition to letting your creation run free.
Adam:
Chris Ballew, you get a lot of love on this show. We want to thank you for all of the great music over the years. And thanks for doing Modern Dadhood with us.
Chris:
Yes. I appreciate you guys too. Thanks for having this platform to have conversations about being daddies, because it's an important job and daddy's got to be taken care of. So, everybody out there, go ahead and father your kids.
Marc:
Adam, we're at the part in the episode where I really feel like a recurring segment would fit nicely.
Adam:
Which one should we do? We've got a handful.
Marc:
I don't have anything at the ready. I can tell you that much. It's been a quiet time in the Checket household.
Adam:
I can't possibly believe that. With two boys, two years old, there's nothing quiet about that.
Marc:
Anything but quiet. I long for quiet.
Adam:
Well, I do have a... So, that's the thing now that I'm happy to share.
Marc:
This is great.
Adam:
So, as you know, my daughters are six and three. Six-year-old daughter is thinking about her body, which is fine. We have open conversations about body parts and keeping your body clean and...
Marc:
That's important.
Adam:
Hygiene is important. Parts of your body that are private. And my wife picked up a book a while ago, maybe a year ago or something. The book is called I Said No! A Kid-to-Kid Guide to Keeping Private Parts Private by Zack and Kimberly King. I'll put a link in the show notes. It's a great book. And at the time when Sarah purchased it, we didn't need to have that conversation immediately. But the more we started talking about those things, the more ready we felt to kind of read the book to her. And it's presented in a really nice way. It's sort of about teaching the kids about red flags and green flags, meaning it's a red flag if X, Y, or Z, you're at a friend's house and they say something like this. I'm really very impressed with the book. And I think it's really important stuff for her to know. However, there's been a couple of nights in a row recently, where at bedtime, she has asked me to read that book to her.
Adam:
Now, we've read the book enough that she's pretty familiar with the content. And now she's asking me to read it to her as like a bedtime story, and my feeling is, at bedtime, I want to read her something that isn't going to really get her gears spinning in her brain. I want to read her something that's story-based and is going to let her imagination run free, and then just sort of transition off into like a dream.
Marc:
It's a heavy topic.
Adam:
Exactly. And that's what I'm telling her. I said, "This is a great book, but I don't want to read it to you at bedtime. This is a time when I want to read you a story," you know? What would you do?
Marc:
Have you tried to say no?
Adam:
Oh, yeah. Oh. Yeah.
Marc:
No. I mean, gosh, dude, I don't know, man. I'm listening to you. Honestly, what's going on in the back of my head as I'm listening to you talk about this and I'm going, "I'm glad I don't have to have this conversation yet with my kids."
Adam:
You're only four years away, man.
Marc:
But they're close. I mean, they're really not that far away. I totally get your instinct of not wanting to have a sit-down and talk about that subject right before bedtime.
Adam:
Yeah. The thing is, I don't mind talking about it. I'm not embarrassed about it. I think it's great that she wants to refresh herself on it. I also don't want her to be hyper focused on it, and become something that she's paranoid about. I want her to know the warning signs and that she should advocate for herself and for her safety and that she should get the hell out of there if she's at a friend's house and something happens that she's uncomfortable with, and that she can talk to her mom and I about all of this stuff openly without feeling embarrassed, but just don't want to do it at eight o'clock at night, right before she's going to bed.
Marc:
Yeah. Or maybe there's something to that of like, "Oh, I really want to read this to you, but you know what? It's time to calm our brains a little bit. It's time to relax and go to sleep. I'll read you just a story and tomorrow, during the day, we can read the book again, maybe at lunchtime so we can talk about it together."
Adam:
That's the thing. I will, I'm saying all of those things to her and that makes perfect sense. I think that that's a great way to approach it. And she's so intelligent and understands so many things, but is also a totally irrational six-year-old in some ways too.
Marc:
Right.
Adam:
So, my saying that will just as easily inspire a flip-out because it's black and white. That's what she wants to read and if she can't read it, she's going to melt down.
Marc:
Yeah.
Adam:
That's the thing in the Flaherty house. The six-year-old is thinking about when to say “no.”
Marc:
Is it time to say goodbye, Adam?
Adam:
I can't believe it is. It's kind of sad in some ways, because I just love Chris Ballew so much. I feel like this episode could have been two and a half hours long, and there would still be stuff to talk about.
Adam:
Dads, you can find us at moderndadhood.com or wherever you like to listen. Maybe that's Stitcher, Spotify, iHeartRadio.
Marc:
Or, you could drop us a line at, Hey, H-E-Y, @moderndadhood.com. We always love to hear from people.
Adam:
Marc, you know this, but we just got a new batch of Modern Dadhood T-shirts, and they look pretty swell.
Marc:
Hot off the presses.
Adam:
I'd like to give a few of them away.
Marc:
That's generous.
Adam:
Yeah. What if the first five people to email us saying that they want a T-shirt, get a T-shirt?
Marc:
Hold on a second there. These are nice T-shirts.
Adam:
Well, should they have to do something for us?
Marc:
It could be something simple.
Adam:
Maybe get one friend to subscribe.
Marc:
Maybe one friend.
Adam:
So, here's the deal. Send us an email and the first five people to request a shirt, we'll let you know what you got to do to get it. It's not going to be a big ask, but we'd be psyched to drop some in the mail. The other thing that helps us out so much is word of mouth. So, if you're liking Modern Dadhood, please tell your friends about us.
Marc:
Thank you to Caspar Babypants, Spencer Albee, and Bubby Lewis for our fantastic music. And to Pete Morse at Red Vault Audio for making the two of us sound wonderful.
Adam:
Delicious.
Marc:
And thank you to the listeners.
Adam:
Stay healthy.