Modern Dadhood

Deconstructing The Dad Bod | PappaStrong's Courtney Wyckoff On Fatherhood Physique

Episode Summary

The Dad Bod: Is it a myth? A legend? A joke? Does it happen to all dads? How can we avoid it? Or better yet, how can we effectively combat if we choose to? Modern Dadhood welcomes its first female guest, Courtney Wyckoff, to the conversation. Courtney’s success as a Certified Personal Trainer and the creator of MommaStrong/PappaStrong gives her unique insight into some of the real underlying issues that spawn postpartum changes in dads’ bodies. Spoiler alert: it’s more than just having a “beer gut.” Plus, we survey our favorite fatherhood Facebook group to hear first hand what factors led to their dad bods.

Episode Notes

The Dad Bod: Is it a myth? A legend? A joke? Does it happen to all dads? How can we avoid it? Or better yet, how can we effectively combat if we choose to? Modern Dadhood welcomes its first female guest, Courtney Wyckoff, to the conversation. Courtney’s success as a Certified Personal Trainer and the creator of MommaStrong/PappaStrong gives her unique insight into some of the real underlying issues that spawn postpartum changes in dads’ bodies. Spoiler alert: it’s more than just having a “beer gut.” Plus, we survey our favorite fatherhood Facebook group to hear first hand what factors led to their dad bods.
 

Episode 28 of Modern Dadhood wastes no time getting into the theme of the conversation: the common shift in male physique that occurs in the months or years after becoming a father—a phenomenon widely known as the “dad bod.” Adam and Marc explore definitions of the slang phrase while swapping stories of their own challenges making health a priority upon becoming fathers. Adam welcomes the first woman (and mom) to the podcast; the phenomenal Courtney Wyckoff, creator of the MammaStrong and PappaStrong exercise programs, mom of three, and total badass. Courtney challenges the idea that the “dad bod” is just about allowing ourselves to eat too much junk or drink too much beer, but rather that there are physical, mental, and emotional stressors that come with fatherhood which can manifest physically—and that returning to exercise, even in 15 minute-per-day increments, can help facilitate a return to strength and health. Other conversation topics include:

•  Body image in men vs. women
•  Redefining what it means to be “strong”
•  Common structural issues in men
• Anchor points of the body
•  Do men have a “pelvic floor?”
•  The secret to habit building
•  Finding the motivation to start
•  Ignoring the “bully voice” in your head
 

The guys check in with their favorite fatherhood-themed Facebook group to take a poll on the driving factors of their change in physique. Unsurprisingly, the most cited reasons centered around time management and food consumption. (Surprisingly, there were many other unexpected answers as well!)

[Episode Transcript]
 

LINKS
PappaStrong
MammaStrong
Red Vault Audio
Caspar Babypants
Spencer Albee

Episode Transcription

Adam:

Marcus Aurelius.

Marc:

What's up, everybody? That's me. I had a history teacher that used to call me that.

Adam:

Really?

Marc:

His name was Mr. Wentling.

Adam:

Mr. Croker used to call me Adam Ant.

Marc:

Mr. Croker sounds like maybe he was kind of a cool dude.

Adam:

Mr. Croker is in heaven now. Where were we?

Marc:

Nowhere, yet. Adam, hello! Welcome, my friend. It's good to see you. That was just as bad.

Adam:

Well, this is Modern Dadhood. It's an ongoing conversation about the joys, challenges, and general insanity of being a dad in this moment. My name's Adam Flaherty. I'm a father of two daughters who are six and three... and a half. They're halves. The halves are important... six and a half and three and a half. Should I start saying that from now on?

Marc:

Yeah! Yeah, yeah. Two, it just makes it too long? I'll go with the half. My name is Marc Checket, and I am a dad of twin boy toddlers. They're two and a half right now... two and a half.

Adam:

Well, Modern Dadhood is an interview show, and each episode has a theme, and the guest for that episode must have a connection to the theme. And today's theme... Did I tell you what the theme is today?

Marc:

I know what the theme is. Yeah. And I'm already feeling a little self-conscious.

Adam:

You've got nothing to worry about. Today's theme is the dad bod.

Marc:

We're talking dad bods on a dad pod.

Adam:

That's right. And in the new sode of the pod, we're talking dad bods. And our guest, Courtney Wyckoff, is-

Marc:

Wait. Whoa, whoa. Say that name again.

Adam:

His name is Courtney Wyckoff.

Marc:

His?

Adam:

No. History is being made today, Marc. We're going to have our first mom guest on the show.

Marc:

Insert applause.

Adam:

I will put a sound effect in, for sure. Courtney is absolutely awesome. And I had the pleasure of chatting with her recently, and we'll hear the conversation in just a short while. Feel good about that?

Marc:

I'm stoked. I'm stoked to listen to the dad pod pod on bod. Hold on. I'm stoked to check the sode about the dad bods on the dad pod. Cut it all out. Cut all of it out.

Adam:

Marc Andrew! Marc Andrew. Marc, you're a healthy looking dude.

Marc:

Yeah, okay. I'd agree. I have the appearance of health.

Adam:

For as long as I've known you, you have been... There's never been a time where I've thought that you looked unhealthy for any reason. I don't know that we've ever talked about this, but are you a regular exerciser?

Marc:

I was never one to work out, like pretty much ever. I mean, I played sports when I was younger. I mean, and I still like to, I don't know, go outside and run around, and throw a ball around and stuff, do that kind of stuff. But I've never been one to have a regimented workout part of my lifestyle, ever. Prior to having kids, I would say that my wife and I took our food pretty seriously, for the most part. We weren't super strict about it, but I would say like 80% of the time, I would say we followed a vegetarian diet. We didn't overindulge in particularly terrible foods. We tried to eat clean, I guess is like the way to say it. Lots of organic food, tried to cook everything ourselves. And that takes a lot of time to think through. You've got to do a lot of regular shopping if you want to have fresh foods around all the time. And all of that went out the window overnight after he brought the boys home. But really quickly, we settled into this routine of eat whatever you can, when you can, as quickly as you can.

Adam:

Right. You need to do the same with sleep. It's like, "If I can squeeze in 15 minutes, like I need that."

Marc:

Yeah. And it wasn't really something that I anticipated, though it makes total sense that your time is... Time is just a new... It's totally different when you bring a kid, especially infants, home from the hospital because they would just require so much of your attention. But that definitely changed me a bit. I gained a bunch of weight, which I've never done in my entire life. When I was 14, I think I grew as much as I was going to grow. And then from 14 to like 35, I was just the same all those years. And then I had kids, and then it changed drastically. How do you feel about your dad bod, dude? Would you classify yourself as having a dad bod?

Adam:

Yeah. I think, unfortunately. I'm not psyched about it. I don't... I'm not proud of it. I've definitely put on weight since having kids. I used to have a really steady, regular, workout routine before having children. And, at least in the beginning, with both of my kids when life is just crazy and upside down and you're exhausted and delirious, things like meal prep and just considering the things that you're eating and when you're eating, it's really hard to make that a priority as well. Now my oldest daughter is six and a half, and when you've been out of a routine or a habit for so long, it can be really tough to get back into it. It can be tough mentally to convince yourself that you're ready to get back into it.

Marc:

Is there a definition out there? Have we, as a society, attached an official definition to dad bod?

Adam:

I'm looking at the definition of dad bod, just... I Googled it and what Wikipedia says, which just is sort of the first thing that came up in the results is, "The dad bod is a slang term in popular culture, referring to a body shape particular to middle-aged men. The phrase has been adopted in US culture as a celebration of this particular type of physique. This masculine body type is a cross between somewhat muscular and overweight physiques."

Marc:

It's kind of an interesting thought, right? I mean, I think to a certain degree, it's mostly "celebrated" quote, unquote, to just make all of ourselves collectively feel better about not prioritizing, for good reason, going out and working out regularly.

Adam:

If you can celebrate it, and I don't know if that's really taking pride in it or just sort of being willing to make fun of yourself because it's easier to do than actually talking about feeling ashamed of it or embarrassed by it.

Marc:

I think it's a way... I mean, if it's looked at as a celebration and which is, if we are reading that as like it's a way to sort of collectively all be okay with quote unquote "letting ourselves go" a little bit, I think that's completely fine because I think we have to just come to terms with reality. I mean, before kids, I had a lot more time on my hands that I could have spent doing things like working out if I really cared about it or reading lots of books or, I don't know, learning new hobbies, whatever. But I think the reality is, is that your priorities have to change when you have kids. And I think some of us had a difficult time maybe making that transition mentally, saying to ourselves, "It's okay that I don't work out X number of days a week." You could do that when you were in high school. You could do that when you were in college. You could do that when you were a single person. And I think it's... I don't know if there's a little bit of like a societal thing at play? Like you're supposed to be healthy. You're supposed to work out. You're supposed to look good. I mean, even something like men's health, I guess I'm saying, it's like it's always like a picture-perfect scenario that is really, really hard to actually achieve if you're like a regular person who works a job all day, does a podcast at night, and has two kids, you know?

Adam:

Well, it's because that is their job, right? That is Dwayne Johnson's job.

Marc:

That's his thing. That's part of his personality. That's part of his brand. That's part of what he uses to go out and make his money and sell his image, and whatnot, is all based on that. And so, he's built his life around it.

Adam:

He also... There are other people's full-time jobs, which are to keep him in shape and accountable and working out on a specific schedule and eating very specific things. So, yeah. I found a definition, another definition, that actually is on Urban Dictionary, which I am enjoying. There are a number of definitions there, but this one says that, "The dad bod is the type of physique a man "earns" when the increasing pressures of work life, married life, and especially fatherhood, no longer allow him time or drive to maintain a hard-toned figure. As a result, what was once a sculpted, chiseled frame digresses into a soft flabby heaping pile of, "I don't give a shit anymore.""

Marc:

That might actually be the best definition of anything on-

Adam:

It's fantastic.

Marc:

... Urban Dictionary. That was amazing. Who wrote that? That's great.

Adam:

Yeah, it's amazing.

Marc:

That's just so wonderfully accurate.

Adam:

All right. So, I've wanted to do an episode on the concept of the dad bod for a long time, and it's always been in my head that Courtney Wyckoff would be the ideal guest for this segment. Courtney's created a home workout program for moms and moms-to -be called MommaStrong. My wife adopted that pretty early on, kind of at the ground level, and she's really loved it and been a strong proponent of MommaStrong for years now. Courtney posts videos daily, and the idea is that you dedicate 15 minutes a day to doing this workout. It's all about kind of just showing up, whatever state you're in, however you feel. You're not looking to impress anybody. It's just to sort of commit to this 15 minutes a day and get it done. And Courtney guides these exercise routines. So anyway, Courtney has found a lot of success with MommaStrong. And she's also passionate about helping men become healthier and happier so, naturally, there was an opportunity to take this model that worked, and to make it available for dads as well. So I had the opportunity to chat with Courtney recently, and we're going to play it back now.

Marc:

Adam, let's get swole.

Adam:

Good morning, Courtney. Welcome to Modern Dadhood.

Courtney:

Good morning! Thanks for having me.

Adam:

Absolutely. This is actually a pretty groundbreaking moment because you are officially the first female guest to join us. And I'm so glad to be speaking with you.

Courtney:

That makes me happy. My big brother would be very proud.

Adam:

We're talking about dad bods today, but first I would love for you to tell us a little bit about yourself and about your family.

Courtney:

Yeah. Well, you hear one person in the background. That's Wyatt and she is 14 months. I think with your third kid, you kind of lose track of this very quickly.

Adam:

I can imagine.

Courtney:

And I have an older daughter who is 13, about to turn 14, and then another daughter who is eight, about to turn nine. So, I have quite the spread of ages, which has been a really interesting and informative thing to go through. I started MommaStrong after my second child was born. My body really reacted in a very difficult way to pregnancy and childbirth. And I was a Pilates teacher the time, so I really thought I could help myself and fix my own body. And I discovered very quickly that the way I had been trained to strengthen myself was actually making me worse. And so I think, in reaction to that, and reaction to modern parenthood, and postpartum depression, I just kind of dove in and decided to solve some problems in my own body and discovered, sure enough, everything I had been doing wasn't actually helping me in the long run. So, I developed what is today, the MommaStrong method, and then what became the PappaStrong method. So yeah, here we are today.

Adam:

Thinking a little bit about the male physique and the idea of the “dad bod,” I've long thought that your background gives you some unique insight, not only into the anatomy piece of it but also the psychological stuff that can either prevent or motivate us when it comes to our health. And I think it would be awesome to hear from you about techniques that you've either discovered or developed that can actually motivate men to get their ass out of bed early, or to squeeze in exercise during their busy day, or find creative ways to reprioritize their health.

Courtney:

Well, I'll say first that this is a subject that I have observed, right? So, I have not experienced it, and I've made my own assumptions probably. So everything I'm about to say is an assumption coming from what I've witnessed. And the reason why I started PappaStrong was that I noticed that fathers were going through a very similar physical deterioration as women after childbirth. But the double bind was, we were not talking about it. I mean, women for as oppressed as we have been for so long and even today, and so much work that we still have yet to do, I think men are actually, in terms of body image and self care, 10 years behind women. Because we talk about it, we get out there, we are forming... We are like being very rebellious, kind of stripping away these things. But when I started to train men, and fathers in particular, I noticed that there was a lack of information, very old information, about what it means to be strong and what that looks like, and also how you then return to physical agility and resiliency after you have a lack of resources, especially in time, that comes with parenthood. And what I found across the board was that we use this term, the dad bod, that really is describing a physical deterioration and more of medical condition issues than letting yourself go or having to accept your body kind of getting mushy or whatever. So, that's one area that I began to focus on was like, well, women deal with medical conditions that we tend to make very casual and we kind of laugh off, but men are dealing with this as well. Most men have been raised on what I call the men's health program, which is like you go to the gym for at least an hour, you work a couple body parts together, and then the next day you do... Like it's a very, very strict program of training that might work if you are very dedicated, if you have a lot of time. But as a father, you don't have that anymore. Along with that, as a father, now you're not getting as much sleep. You're eating more for comfort. You're definitely not as active. And so, your access to free time and physicality have changed. So you're still eating the same way, you're still kind of treating yourself the same way. So dad bod just happens, where you're in pain, you feel... What's the word I hear men say? They feel fluffy. You definitely get the beer belly. All these things happen but it's because we haven't yet shifted away from this paradigm of training the male body, which is insane because the human body is a human body, and we don't actually need that entire hour. And we have proven that. And that's not a gender thing, but there's a different way to go about retraining and getting back into your body.

Adam:

You mentioned something about medical issues sort of being woven into that phrase. Is there something specific that you're referring to?

Courtney:

Yeah. I mean, so when we look at the female body during pregnancy, the growth of our abdomens, right? Our bellies create a lot of liabilities, including a tendency toward a hernia, a tendency toward low back pain, a tendency towards a condition called diastasis recti, all sorts of conditions that we have assumed are female issues. But when we look at men who have, say, even just a little bit of a belly or a growing beer belly, we also know that they most likely are walking around basically pregnant all the time, and perhaps longer than a lot of women are. And then we, for some reason, think that this is not affecting their bodies the same way. It doesn't matter if it's like fat around the organs or a baby, the body is still expanding in the same way, and it's creating the same issues in the body. So, men are dealing with these conditions, but it's not being treated in the same way in terms of like this is something that we have to address. This is something that's actually happening. There's this assumption that you can have this condition and it not have an effect on your wellbeing. Along with that, I think we look at kind of what the method of MommaStrong and PappaStrong teaches, which is the anchor points of the body, and how are your glutes functioning, and what is your pelvic floor doing? And for some reason, here too, we assume that men don't have a pelvic floor. And that's just not the case. Like you all have a pelvic floor too, and it is being affected in the same ways, but why that has been kind of pocketed into a female issue is a disservice, not only to women, but also to men because you can't solve your physical issues, even, say, if you have shoulder pain or knee pain, if you have pelvic floor issues, or if you have an issue with your deep abdominal muscles. But yeah, we really do think, "Oh, I can ignore that this is happening to the male body, that your pelvis is being tucked under, that your belly is protruding, and that your upper body is being pulled forward," and think, "I can just get you some PT or tell you to go do some chest presses at the gym," ,or some, you know, get back to running and that it's going to solve these things. I think the other thing that's important about dad bod, it's for me, dad bod is the outward expression of internal distress sometimes, which is that men are going through a lot these days in modern parenthood. Most men are good men and they're like, "I don't want to be the one raising my hand saying I have problems," when they see their wife going through this whole thing. And so, it's hard to say, "Hey! Not only am I pushed into this provider role..." Even if we're a modern family and we're very... we believe in equality and equal, this stuff happens behind the scenes. But along with that, women don't have the support that we used to have, meaning community and a group, a village, a group of other women around us to help us. So, men are now being called into that place as well. I can imagine, and I don't know. And again, this is an assumption. But I can imagine it's extremely stressful for you all to learn how to traverse that. And it's new, but nobody's really talking about it. So, for me, the dad bod is just like the female body, when we talk about the hiding posture that women go through from when we're very young going through puberty. When we look at the male body, after becoming a parent, it's not just letting go and not having enough time. It's also this person is under stress. This person is carrying a lot, and this is what the body is expressing itself to be, as a result.

Adam:

I was really surprised, and I shouldn't have been surprised because Sarah has been doing MommaStrong for as long as she has, but when I started PappaStrong a year ago maybe, or more, how much of a difference 15 minutes a day really can make. How much of getting people to commit to that, do you feel, is just sort of building the habit?

Courtney:

I think it's 100% habit building. I rarely, rarely want to do a 15 minutes. And so, I have learned because if it weren't for MommaStrong or PappaStrong, I promise you I would not show up for 15 minutes by myself. I wouldn't do it. I don't care how good the program is, I wouldn't myself be an active member in my own company. I wouldn't do it! So the reason I do show up is a very key component of what helps us all in behavior change, which is the pain of not showing up for me is greater than the pain of showing up. And that balance has become so important because if I don't show up, then I have to talk to the rest of our team, and then I have to find an archived workout. And by the time I do that, I could have filmed the work and be done with it. So most of the time, if I'm not sick or there isn't like a real logistical thing, showing up is far less painful than not showing up. So, then I have to ask myself, "How would the average person who is not..." This isn't their job. Like it's my job. "How would you then create that same behavior change?" And for me, it comes down to the bully voice. And that is being released and liberated from the bully voice that sits in your head all day long and says to you, "You need to do something. You need to do something. You need to work out. You should go do that. Why don't you go do that?" all day. We all know from, say, trying to write an email while your kid is saying your name over and over, that what ends up happening is no matter how much you love that kid, you want to throw him through the window, right? Because you start to build up this resentment. And the same thing happens with the bully voice that is saying to you, "You need to work out. You need to do something. Do your 15 minutes." You end up resenting it and suddenly, the 15 minutes, which is doable and small, becomes Mount Everest. So, I like to think for people for whom this is not their job, if you think about being liberated from the bully voice or the itty bitty shitty committee, as we say, in your head, if you think about that, "How can I just get this over with so that my brain can be free the rest of the day, and I can declare that this was enough and I at least got that in?" You have to practice it. And I usually find that three days of putting this stuff in consistently puts you into new behavior. If you're really, really determined, three days of saying, "I'm going to do my 15 minutes, right? Like this time," then doing it. You're not going to want to do it. It's not going to be convenient. It's not going to feel good. It's probably not going to go well. You end up being like, "Okay, I can do that."

Adam:

So, I think when we consider how to develop a new habit, so much of it is just getting over the hurdle of starting something. And if you were to speak directly to the dads listening, who have not been able to prioritize their health since having kids or have not chosen to, what would you say to try to get them over that hurdle to start really moving their bodies again?

Courtney:

I think the first thing I would say is that interrogate the idea that 15 minutes a day is not enough or somehow less than what you should be doing. And after that, try it out. Give yourself an opportunity to be free of that programming, which told you, you are only strong, you're only doing a good job with your strength, if you're doing, say, the men's health program. See for yourself and get proof because you deserve proof. Very rarely in the health world are you given opportunity to say, "Hey, I believe kind of what you're saying but I'm going to take some time to prove that." So give yourself three days to develop some proof that this actually is enough, that it is useful, and doesn't make you less than, or it's not telling you how to do in secret, or instead of that, quite possibly, this was enough all along. And this is something you deserve to know. And I think it's absolutely worth it, that as we see with women, the ability to step inside your skin and check in with your body... I mean, the workouts are great for my body. It's healed all my pain but, at the end of the day, it helps me deal with this incredibly confusing, often chaotic, world that we live in. You know, this moment, I want to feel some exertion. I want to give my brain a break, and I want to learn a new tool that I can do that actually is enough, when it's consistent.

Adam:

Courtney Wyckoff, thank you so, so much for your insight, and for being the first mom on Modern Dadhood.

Courtney:

Thank you so much for having me. And I'm excited to see people show up for us as well, and join us in this incredibly fun adventure.

Marc:

So, in preparation for this episode and a little bit as like a social experiment, we took to Facebook, one of our... I think, our, Adam, yours and mine... one of our favorite dad-centric, Facebook groups-

Adam:

That's right.

Marc:

... I'd say, right? We post a... Just threw a question up there asking the group, "What's the biggest factor that contributed to your change in physique?" And I remember exactly when we posted it, because you had mentioned, "Oh, somebody said something kind of funny," and I hovered on it for a minute to read that. And as I was reading it, another comment popped up, and then another comment, and then another, and another, and another, and it really sparked quite a conversation amongst people.

Adam:

It did, yeah.

Marc:

So, it clearly hit on a topic that means a lot, or at least is top of mind with a lot of people, a lot of dads. So, we think it'd be kind of fun to maybe just read a couple of these, talk about some of the thoughts that people have. What do you think about that?

Adam:

So, yeah. Of course, a lot of people shared about sort of having very little free time after having kids or like no free time at all. And when you do find like 30 minutes, you really just want to turn your brain off and not go and work more.

Marc:

Artie White says, "Time. No free time. Zero." But then he comes back to kind of clarify, "When I do get free time, I'm just too exhausted to do anything except maybe sit down and watch TV."

Adam:

Yeah. Something that requires no effort to watch.

Marc:

Exactly.

Adam:

Lots of dads in the group said that they, pre-kids, had some pretty intense routines, long-distance running, biking and things like that. And now just simply don't have the time for that anymore, which obviously affects you physically but also affects you mentally too, right?

Marc:

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah! I mean, if you're a... I don't know from experience because I don't run ever. But if you're a long-distance runner, I mean, there's a physical aspect to it, but there's clearly also a mental aspect to it. I mean, it takes... I think it takes a lot of your brain power to be able to... whatever those people do. Another theme that I feel like was common throughout, which is something that I do, and wasn't sure if other people do this, was just eating up all of the leftovers that your kids don't eat. I kind of... I don't know why. I just kind of thought I was maybe alone in that. And I actually commented on this thread with that. And so many people said something really, really similarly, like... Let's see. Oscar says, "The temptation of kids' leftovers." Ron says, "Eating leftovers and things that picky kid eaters don't eat." And Steve, Jeff, all these people, just leftovers, you know? So this guy says something about the can't waste food mentality maybe?

Adam:

Yeah, yeah! I hadn't thought of that. It's like I have often thought about like how maddening and kind of heartbreaking it is to go to the grocery store and spend so much money and then you make dinner and like 80% of the kid's plate just goes into the trash can. It just drives me crazy. But the idea of, "I can't waste this food, so I'm going to eat it," you know? And then, you're spending more money on that food, the kids aren't eating it, and you're also getting the negative side effects of larger portions is... It's interesting. Tyler Travis said, "I started really getting back into craft beer because it was a hobby I could do solo, and it didn't require me to spend time away from my family." That's a toughie. 

Marc:

Stress eating too. I feel a lot of... As it pertains to just bad eating habits, stress eating is in and of itself its own thing.

Adam:

Alberto said that he gets guilt trips from his partner. So, she makes him feel guilty for going to get some exercise, presumably because he gets some free time with that. So she'll say like, "Must be nice."

Marc:

Oh, that's rough.

Adam:

"It must be nice."

Marc:

That's rough.

Adam:

Which is tough. Which is tough. Because you're not... I mean, maybe there is a little bit of a selfish component to I get a little bit of freedom by going to do this, but really? Like you're taking care of your body, your physical health, your mental health, and supporting the longevity of your life.

Marc:

Exactly. I mean, there are far worse things that that guy could be doing to get a little time alone. We should talk about what the gentleman by the name of John Barry said because, in the sea of comments, I feel like he might've been the only person to mention this. He says, "There's something interesting about a shift in mindset from taking the time to care about yourself and focusing on yourself, and turning that, and away from yourself and putting it all on your kids," and he said, "not realizing how intertwined those things really are."

Adam:

Well, it's an interesting concept. How can you take care of somebody else effectively if you can't take care of yourself? I mean, I get it in theory, but like it's still very easy to not make your health a priority.

Marc:

Yeah, it's true. And I mean, the meat... Like we say a lot. We, I guess, I mean, maybe parents, maybe new parents, say, "Oh, I'm in survival mode." Is that... That term survival mode. And it's interesting because that inherently sort of, I guess, implies that you are the one that's surviving, which is true. But oftentimes, it's also like, "No, I really need to make sure this new thing survives. Like I've... All my attention is being focused on this. I mean, we've all probably had those moments, right? Soon after you get home from the hospital where you're just like eyes locked on, double checking to make sure that they're still breathing like every hour or two. You know, "Did I give them enough food? Did I give them too much food? Do they need a diaper change again?" And it's just like back and forth, and it never really stops. And it's really hard to quiet that. You're really potentially damaging yourself the less you focus on your own health and your own sleep and your own diet, and all of that.

Adam:

I had two favorite comments from the responses that we got. And I think maybe we can close out the segment with these two.

Marc:

I wonder if it's similar to my favorites.

Adam:

One of them is... I think it's the first comment that came in from Brian, who said, "I think it's mostly because I eat like an unattended toddler at a birthday party." Which is brilliant. It's like perfect.

Marc:

It puts such an image in your head of like a fully grown man just constantly walking by a table that's got food at it, and just-

Adam:

Doop, doop! One of those! A couple of those!

Marc:

What was your other favorite?

Adam:

I think it was... I think it's the clear winner. Not that this was a competition, but did you-

Marc:

By chance, is it the person who used the word hellscape?

Adam:

Yeah.

Marc:

I'm looking for that one. Do you have it?

Adam:

I wrote it down-

Marc:

Okay, perfect.

Adam:

I wrote it down here. Feel free to chime in. "The biggest factor contributing to James Conroy's dad bod is the fact that we live in a hellscape, and there's no hope for salvation."

Marc:

That's it. Period.

Adam:

Well said.

Marc:

Well put, sir. End of segment. Adam, we've found ourselves again at the end of yet another episode.

Adam:

We always do.

Marc:

Listeners, you can find us at moderndadhood.com Apple podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Amazon podcasts, and more! Please subscribe, rate, and even review us. And if you're feeling like sharing the love, do us a huge favor and tell your dad friends, maybe even a few mom friends while you're at it.

Adam:

Tell them about the show. Ask them to subscribe.

Marc:

Tell them, "Hey, mom friend, I think you'll like this show. I think you'll like the cut of Marc and Adam's jibs.

Adam:

Drop us a line anytime at hey H-E-Y @moderndadhood.com and we would always, always want to thank Caspar Babypants and Spencer Albee for the music in Modern Dadhood to the fantastic Pete Morse at Red Vault Audio, who you can find at redvaultaudio.com for his expert skills, to our guest, Courtney Wyckoff, who you can find at mommastrong.com and pappastrong.com that's M-O M-M-A Strong and P-A-P-P-A Strong.com and our intern, Mile Cru... Mile... Miley Cyrus. Miles Crusberg-Roseen.

Marc:

Miles Crusberg-Roseen, who has exactly five fingers on his right hand.

Adam:

Do you know this?

Marc:

Intern Fact.

Adam:

Do you know? Have you seen?

Marc:

Prove it to be true, prove it to be false. I don't know. Take your pick. 

Adam:
Okay. Intern Fact.

Marc:

Oh! And thank you for listening.