According to the National Institute of Mental Health, nearly one in five adults in the U.S. lives with a mental illness. If anything, that statistic tells us that those who are struggling are not alone in their struggle. Still, reaching out for help can sometimes feel insurmountable. In this episode, guest Brian Manor, a dad to two, shares his personal story and talks openly about his challenges with clinical depression, social anxiety disorder, and seasonal affective disorder. Stick around to the end for another round of the infamous recurring segment, "Confessions."
According to the National Institute of Mental Health, nearly one in five adults in the U.S. lives with a mental illness. If anything, that statistic tells us that those who are struggling are not alone in their struggle. Still, reaching out for help can sometimes feel insurmountable. In this episode, guest Brian Manor, a dad to two, shares his personal story and talks openly about his challenges with clinical depression, social anxiety disorder, and seasonal affective disorder. Stick around to the end for another round of the infamous recurring segment, Confessions.
Episode 41 opens with hosts Adam and Marc briefly recounting their experiences getting their first doses of the Covid-19 vaccine, coincidentally scheduled on the same day. The guys transition to a discussion of mental illness; specifically the ways in which society addresses mental health, and how the conversation has shifted over the past 30 years. The guys welcome Brian Manor to the conversation. Brian is a husband and a father of two. He lives in Wisconsin, works for a blood donation organization, and writes for his fatherhood-themed Fatterhood: A Humorous New Dad's Blog. Brian shares openly, (both in his blog and during our conversation), about his history with mental illness and how it has affected his life, his job, and his role as a father. The conversation covers many topics including:
• Why Brian is not ashamed of his mental health
• The difficulty in diagnosing mental health conditions in children
• Overlapping symptoms of clinical depression and anxiety disorders
• The importance of SEEKING HELP!
• The importance of checking on your friends if you’re concerned about them
• The rise of discussing mental illness publicly and without shame
• How educating his support system is helpful
• How finding the right provider led to significant improvement
• Being aware of potential signs in your children
• Shop around for the right provider if you are able to
• "It's not your fault, but it's your responsibility."
The episode culminates with arguably one of the strongest Confessions sessions to date.
On a personal note from Adam and Marc, in each episode, we invite our listeners to reach out to us by e-mail. If you can relate to Brian's experience or you connect with this episode for any reason, you are more than welcome to reach out to us. While we are not experts on mental illness, fatherhood, or much of anything, really—we are good listeners. And we are here for you.
We've included links below that pertain to our conversation with Brian, as well as some additional resources that we'd encourage you to explore. But as a reminder, there is no shame in seeking help. And, despite how it may feel, you are NOT alone. We love you and appreciate you!
[Episode Transcript]
Links:
Fatterhood: A Humorous New Dad's Blog
Chris Gethard "Career Suicide"
Hannah Gatsby "Nanette" (Netflix)
Marcus Parks / The Last Podcast on the Left
Jordan Raskopoulos "Living With High Functioning Anxiety" TEDxSydney
5 Minute Guide to Men's Mental Health
BeThe1To
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Anxiety & Depression Association of America
Red Vault Audio
Caspar Babypants
Spencer Albee
Marc: Feeling alright?
Adam: I feel good for a Tuesday night!
Marc: That's good. Hey, folks, welcome back. This is Modern Dadhood, an ongoing conversation about the joys, the challenges and the general insanity of being a dad in this moment. My name is Marc Checket and I'm a dad to twin three year olds. Both boys. Changed it up a little.
Adam: You did! I like it! It works.
Marc: Yeah, I thought it through. I hadn't said it out loud until just now, but it feels right.
Adam: My name is Adam Flaherty. I'm a dad to two girls who are seven and four. We got an episode today.
Marc: We do. And you. I just thought of something. I have two kids. You have two kids.
Adam: That makes four in total.
Marc: That's right. Our guest today, guy by the name of Brian Manor, a dad to also two kids.
Adam: What a coincidence! That's so unlikely. It's almost impossible.
Marc: That makes six kids total. If anyone's counting.
Adam: Three boys, three girls.
Marc: That's right. So stay tuned and you're going to listen to our conversation a little bit.
Adam: You asked me how I'm feeling at the top of the episode, but I neglected to ask you how you are feeling.
Marc: I'm starting to feel good
Adam: because you got your shot yesterday?
Marc: Yeah, I got I got my shot. What an experience that was. Y.
Adam: You get the P?
Marc: I got the Pfizer.
Adam: What if I told you this? I got the P yesterday too.
Marc: You got the P? You got some P in your A?
Adam: Yes, in my upper A.
Marc: Did you get some P in your upper A?
Adam: And now my upper age is feeling a little uncomfortable.
Marc: Yeah. It gets a little tight.
Adam: Little heavy.
Marc: Yeah. I haven't had quite that much P in my upper A in quote sometime, I think that's why it's extra tight. Yeah. Just take it there man. It's cool. No it was, I don't know... What was your experience like? What was the location of where you got your shot?
Adam: I was in what used to be a department store and it's now a large empty building. But it was, I mean it was clean. I didn't have to wait long. Everybody was really friendly. It was very quick and easy. That was nice.
Marc: Yeah, I waited for a while, but it was we were constantly moving. I think there was a lot of people right around that same time. People were pleasant and they really had it together, you know, but I don't know. I was just really weirded out by the whole thing because mine too was in an old department store that is no more. You'd look in one direction, and it was like there were lights, there was some order, nice signage. And then you'd turn and you'd look off and there'd just be like a dark corridor, you know? And like, I kept feeling like I was in an episode of The Walking Dead or something. You know? Like it just was very surreal. And it was amazing, though, to at the same time, it was like, what an effort, what a huge undertaking. And to see it happening there. To make them! To get them to where they are today into my upper A... It's incredible.
Adam: It is super impressive. Yeah. Very thankful for that. I have to admit, I feel a little underprepared to have a conversation about mental illness.
Marc: You do?
Adam: a little bit!
Marc: in the sense that...
Adam: I understand how prevalent it is, but I feel like maybe I'm still a little bit ignorant to it just because I haven't dealt with it personally myself.
Marc: Yeah, I put myself in that same boat. Here's something that I was thinking about. Do you think it's fair to say that when we were young kids..., when we were... That what a weird emphasis. Hold on. Do you think it's fair to say that when we were young, that the topic of mental health was treated very differently than it is today?
Adam: ...Probably. But I guess that's a question of was it not as prevalent there, or was it not as diagnosed, or was it just more taboo than it is now?
Marc: I guess you'd have to probably say it's a combination of all of those things, but I was thinking that a lot of it has to do with the last thing that you just said, the fact that there is a certain stigma. Because the stigma is there today. And we've come quite a ways, I think, since you and I were little teeny tiny kids because, I mean, even today we still hear the words "mental health" or like "mental health issue" or something, you know, along those lines around like really drastic or extreme situations, you know, the terms get thrown out almost as if, like, I don't know, a way to put ourselves at ease when something really horrible happens. When a person does an extreme thing that's beyond comprehension, it's like we kind of go there with it.
Adam: Do you think it's used as an like an excuse?
Marc: I think in some cases, yes, depending on what the act was. But that we it's kind of a weird mechanism because it's not something that we should look at as like, "Oh, it's a mental health issue. Now, we don't have to talk about it anymore." And that's not necessarily what they're saying, but when you enter into the conversation through that, you're entering into it in a really stigmatized environment. You're just connecting it to that act. And so we are looking at it. We're examining it in a biased way right out of the gate.
Adam: This is true. But also consider this: When somebody is brought through the court system for committing a crime, their defense will always use that as part of their argument for why the punishment should be lessened, which doesn't help.
Marc: No, it doesn't help. That sort of always being a gateway into the conversation is that it just exacerbates the stigma surrounding the topic when you can have so many different levels of "mental health issue." And then I start to wonder, do some people not want to reach out for help with something that they're dealing with because either A, they don't feel like they fit that extreme narrative and so they don't think that's really not an issue because I'm like, I'm not ready to do something extreme or drastic, right? Or, B, they don't want other people to think that about them. And so that being like a part of the national discussion or most visible discussion, I feel like it deters certain people from seeking out help early on.
Adam: Well, it's interesting you should say that, because I actually came with a few statistics, and the last couple really sort of align with what you were just saying. So first of all, roughly one in five adults in the US experience mental illness, which is crazy. One in five. Now, one in 20 experience serious mental illness. And of course, that level of severity is determined based on things like how long the person has experienced it and the level of disability that it produces. But it's things like severe depression and schizophrenia and severe bipolar disorder that would fall into that category of serious mental illness. So one in 20 people suffer from serious mental illness in the United States. But what relates to what you were saying is that I was reading that anxiety disorders are very treatable, but only about 37% of people who suffer from anxiety disorders receive treatment. I also read, which goes a little bit in parallel, is that 36% of people with social anxiety disorder, which is what our guest Brian has, report going 10 years or more before having it treated.
Marc: See, that... I believe that a large part of those people who are reluctant to take measures to seek out some kind of help for themselves are held back for reasons like it's not bad enough, you know, like it doesn't it doesn't fit into that category. So who am I to go out there and say, I'm having this trouble?
Adam: Everybody experiences some level of anxiety over things. At what point if you're not talking to your doctor or any sort of professional or provider about it, how do you self determine that your anxiety is more severe than somebody else's to the point where you should seek help?
Marc: That's a great point. And that's what I start to think about when I hear stuff like that from people like Brian or when I hear statistics like that, that there's a large percentage of people who are suffering in some capacity but don't seek out help or treatment in any way... A lot of it is our inability to name it, to identify it, to understand really what's going on. And then I started thinking back to when we were kids. And that's what led me to my first question. And we go through so many years of school and, you know, we have like gym class. So there's some health considerations and we have health classes. Sure. But we don't really, I don't think, sit down and treat mental health as its own specific topic that we've got to inform and educate ourselves on from an early age. And I think that's a huge missed opportunity. We talked a little bit about it when Scotty Iseri was on the show.
Adam: That's right.
Marc: That's really the whole sort of point of the existence of his show is giving people at a much younger age the ability to name some of these these things and also how to deal with trauma in your life.
Adam: Right, I mean, but it could be it could be a death of a family member... It doesn't have to be that youu grew up in a physically abusive household.
Marc: Right. It doesn't have to be something that's like extreme that everybody can point to and say, "No wonder that person is the way they are!" It could be something as, yes, you experience a death in the family at a young age or something that you just didn't really fully understand.
Adam: Or there's there are addiction issues in the family. Alcoholism.
Marc: Exactly. Any number of things, anything that's sort of under that big, heavy life experiences, trauma, abuse, and not having the ability to work through an experience like that can lead to mental health issues or illness down the line.
Adam: And I just wonder if education around all of this beginning at a younger age, would make everybody more comfortable talking about it. And I would like to think that it would bring the staggering statistics down and lead to more people getting help, which they should not feel ashamed to ask for. I want to welcome Brian Manor to the conversation. Brian's a dad to a five-year-old daughter and a two year old son. He is a team supervisor for a blood collection organization in Wisconsin, and he writes a blog about his experience as a dad called Fatterhood, which you can find on Facebook. So welcome, Brian!
Brian: Hi. Thanks for having me, guys.
Adam: How are things in Wisconsin?
Brian: Good! Good, the weather's finally turning around. We had a really nasty cold snap, so it was great to finally kick the kids outdoors and let them explore. I'm very glad Spring is here.
Adam: Talk to us a little bit about your family.
Brian: Oh, like you had mentioned earlier, I’ve got an almost five-year-old. She'll be turning five in April. And her name's Elizabeth. She is all of her father. And it's very hard to parent the me out of a five-year-old. She's too much like me. That's just all there is to it. That's why her and I butt heads all the time. She's stubborn as all hell. She's too smart for her own good. She's cute and she knows it well. That part I can't relate to. But she's all over that. Then my son Roman, he'll be three in July. He is very much like his mother. He is always into something. He's always got to be moving or outside or hiking or running or whatever. But he is he's also too smart for his own good. He just chooses to use his genius for evil every time. But he's also the sweetest kid you'll ever meet in your entire life. He'll tear apart my work bag and then see how upset I am and then just come up and give me a giant hug. And say, "I'm so sorry, Daddy, I won't do it again." We both know full well he's going to do it again, but he genuinely feels bad too. So they're just really great kids. They're goofy, they're funny. They're the most accidentally funny people I've ever met. They don't always get why they're being so funny, but they are my reason for getting up in the morning most days.
Marc: That's awesome. I love that, like, that ability that kids have to take you right to the brink of, like, you're working on your last nerve and then they're just, like, the most adorable, most wonderful little thing. They come, they give you a little hug. They say something like, "I love you." And you're like, "Why do you do this to me?"
Adam: All of the frustration dissipates!
Marc: So Brian we'd love to hear a little bit about Fatterhood and the inspiration behind starting it. Can you talk a little bit about that to us?
Brian: Yeah, I started it, it'll be five years ago in May. It was when I was out on paternity leave. You know, I was bored. I work in a pretty high, high performing job. So I never really have a chance to just sit, ever. And all of a sudden I'm on paternity leave and trying to bond with my kid. And I realized as much as that was awesome for me, I was bored. Really, really bored. So I started posting stuff on Facebook, I think the first one that kind of was the impetus for it was after her umbilical cord had fallen off. I posted, "Oh, no parts are already falling off this kid. Can I return her? Is she under warranty?"
Adam: Perfect.
Brian: And then all of a sudden I had friends like, "Oh my gosh, you should write a blog or do something!" So I did, I listened to my friends and I started doing that. I guess I view it almost like a baby book for them. Eventually they'll be able to see all the trials, tribulations, foibles, fun times, everything else that came along while they were growing up.
Adam: A lot of your posts are written in a way that is it's basically an open letter to the two of them, which is really sweet and will certainly make really nice material for them to return to when they're older. As part of your blog, you're very forthcoming about your struggles with mental health. Would you mind giving our listeners some of your history with that?
Brian: Sure. You know, I've always been pretty open with it. There's to me, it's just never been anything to be ashamed about. But I get why so many people aren't as forthcoming with it. It started for me when I was very young. It was actually in second grade when they identified that I had some pretty serious signs of clinical depression. I had a very serious attempt to hurt myself at that time. And then it pretty much never got any better from there. Not until quite recently. I believe I'm up to five suicide attempts since second grade. Thank goodness, I'm not necessarily proud of any of these things either. That's far from the word I would choose, but I'm just not ashamed of it. It's bad brain chemistry. After years and years and years of therapy, I don't think there's really an impetus for it. I don't think that there's a serious bit of trauma. I am genetically predisposed to terrible brain chemistry. My mom had had bipolar disorder growing up, so she was always super open with me. It was just the two of us. My dad left when I was very young. But I also never heard anyone else ever talk about it, not openly. So even though I wasn't ashamed, I kind of assumed it was just us. Immediately she got me help. I've been in some form of behavioral health care pretty much ever since off and on since second grade now.
Adam: So as you've learned more about the conditions and become more familiar with how they personally affect you, you said you've been in some form of behavioral therapy for decades. So thinking back on all of the various practitioners that you've spent time with, do you think that there are things that they have misunderstood or misdiagnosed or anything that they could have, or should have, done differently that would have gotten you to a better place before just recently?
Brian: You know, it's really tough, when I was starting out, that young. Diagnosing mental health conditions in children is not an exact science. I actually technically wasn't able to be labeled as depressed in second grade. You can't diagnose, say, a seven-year-old with depression. I mean, in hindsight, is there things that I wish they could have done differently? Sure. But there's also, they've got their rules, their diagnostic criteria. But it was I think I was about 27 or 28 when I was diagnosed with anxiety. And that's the one that threw me for a loop. I was like I started seeing a different doctor. My normal doctor was out, so I actually had to see his fill in and we started talking about some stuff and she goes, Brian, I think you might have an anxiety disorder. And being in and out of some form of mental health treatment for well over 20 years at that point, I was like, "I know enough about this. It's not anxiety." And she started asking me follow up questions and I was kind of blown away. I was like, "Well, doesn't everyone do that?" She goes, "Yeah, to an extent. But have you, like, lost sleep over that thing you said 10 years ago?" I went "Well.... Yeah, but that was really stupid, and I ruminated on it for a decade." She goes, "That's not normal. That's not what everyone does." And all of a sudden, a lot of things start clicking into place for me. And I was like oh, no. In a lot of times, symptoms of depression can mask symptoms of anxiety and vice versa. And that's been the struggle the last couple of years for me. Do I wish we had found that sooner? Yeah. I get why it was so hard. I'm really good at masking it. I always have been. So I think that would have changed some of the dialogue, the therapy, the treatment over the years. But you don't know what you don't know until you realize you don't know it either.
Marc: You talked a lot about a lot of things that there is a stigma around. There's kind of just a stigma around the topic of depression or mental health or anxiety. But then when you talk about it, just in terms of being a guy, there's a whole other sort of part of that. That's stigma that's attached to it. I know some of it kind of just comes from this notion that depression or anxiety or any of these things for some reason is a sign of weakness. Right? Like that seems to be a narrative that you that you hear that you read it, you see sometimes. But what do you say to someone who might think that that's true?
Brian: I've heard that before, Marc, a thousand times. I kind of toss that criticism aside like, "I'm sorry, I've been living with it for over 20 years." I'm not a mental health expert by any stretch of that word, but I've been through it. So I do know what I'm talking about. It’s not weakness. It’s bad wiring. And I hear a lot of, “I don't want to go to therapy. They're going to put me on drugs,” or, “I don't want my family to know. That'll make things weird," "I was going to check on my friend, but I didn't want to make things worse." And I’m like “Ohhhh, Gosh.” You do what you can to overcome it, to treat it, to live with it. And that was actually very surprising for me once I finally became more open with it. I was expecting some version of pity, I guess, for lack of a better term. And what I found was patience. It wasn't pity. If all of a sudden I'm like, "I'm not sure I want to come out to this thing tonight." They know me. They know my triggers. Even at work. I've just been very open about it with my team saying, "Nine times out of ten, if I'm snaking out on you for something, I'm not mad at you at all. You happen to be the first one I ran into. That is not an excuse for my behavior, but I need you to know it's not you." But more to your point, Marc, you're right... Specifically for guys, there seems to be a huge stigma. It's not until quite recently that I would say I kind of hate conversations framed this way because it almost sounds like "poor white guy, feel bad for me," but it's true for guys in general, regardless of race or socioeconomic income or anything like that. We haven't been able to talk about our emotions or what makes us happy, sad. We've basically had "Happy" and "Anger". So that's been the fun part about having kids, is I get to explore my emotions a little bit better.
Marc: It sounds like to me someone who has not, you know, suffered with depression or anxiety like that, I feel like what we need are people like you who do deal with this day in and day out, who have the ability or to feel okay being open and talking about it, because that's how we, as a society, learn more and learn to be comfortable and learn how to ask the right questions. You know, I think just historically, it's a topic that's been kind of taboo for people to talk about.
Brian: It's becoming more commonplace. Chris Gethard, he did a one man show a couple of years ago called "Career Suicide", and that's his struggles with mental health. And the first time I heard that, I was just like, "Woah, someone else is doing the same thing that I thought I was doing. But he's obviously doing on a way bigger scale."
Adam: Chris Gethard is amazing. He's hilarious.
Brian: Oh, my God. I love that dude. And his book. And he's not a mental health expert either, you know, he's just talking about it. And that gets people thinking about it and gets rid of that stigma that you guys were referring to. And then Hannah Gadsby, she did the Netflix special "Nanette" talking about it from a whole different side of things there, too.
Adam: Yeah, she's great.
Brian: Hearing people be more confident and capable and using the correct lingo that we all understand. Getting that message out there helps.
Marc: Brian, I wonder if you can talk a little bit about how does your depression and anxiety affect your role as Elizabeth's and Roman's dad?
Brian: Well, like I said, over the years, it's been a coping mechanism, but I've become very good at masking it. That's also what has been made treating it very difficult over the years. The tough part is I'm in a customer facing outward role, so I have my customer service face on all day. The last year in particular has been a nightmare in multiple ways. So I've had to keep my brave mask on for all my staff. And when I get home, I don't want my kids to know how tired and frustrated and drained and everything I am. So I got my dad mask. It's not uncommon for me to spend five, ten minutes out in the garage before I walk in the house just to recollect myself and get my mask on so that they don't have to see that. But where it gets tough is when that mask slips. If I had a really rough day and all of a sudden one of them just goes too far over the edge and I yell, or I just need to go outside or whatever it may be, I can really beat myself up for that, where I think most of the time most other parents are like, "Yeah, they just got on my last nerve. Whatever. It's fine." I'll go into a two day depression bout because I snaked out, but they, they're good. And my wife, she needs to be canonized for sainthood. She's the one that usually can see when I'm percolating and actually she's the one that I would feel the worst for. I'm usually pretty good. We have conversations with the kids. It's, "You know how you got really frustrated last week because Roman took your toy? Well Daddy just got really frustrated today, too. So he needed to take a break, just like you did." So having those conversations have been really important and very helpful.
Adam: What do your kids understand? I mean, you used the phrase the "dad mask", which it makes such perfect sense. Do your kids have an understanding of this part of you?
Brian: A very, very, you know, low level understanding. I don't think we've ever labeled it as "anxiety" or "depression" with her or anything like that, but she has an idea of it. Yeah, Roman, I don't think would care right now. He's too busy getting into stuff all the time.
Marc: How does your family history of of mental health issues framed the way that you and Cheryl talk about your kids and their future?
Brian: Well, I'm kind of terrified that that there is a heavy genetic component to it. I can already see it a lot of times with my daughter. I try to stay out of my head with it because you can't diagnose that in children. But I see so many behaviors that both of them do. But Elizabeth in particular I'm like, "Oof, that's out of your dad's playbook right now." So then it's trying to figure out, is that a learned behavior? Or is that something I can try to unlearn with her? Or is that ingrained in her? One of my favorite quotes of all time from another podcaster Marcus Parks from The Last Podcast on the Left podcast. He is very open with his mental health. And the thing he always says is "mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility." The first second I heard that that's when it really clicked for me. I'm like, "You're right. This isn't my fault." Calling it a victim seems a little too much, but it is my responsibility to take care of it.
Marc: That's really powerful that notion that it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility. And I've never heard that before. And that is really powerful. You know, we've learned in the fairly recent past that mental health issues are very common. You pointed out a statistic earlier about how many people, you know, have some form or another. And I mean, I don't know the numbers, but I know that when you dissect that with new fathers, you know, that number gets... It's astounding how many new fathers experience something like a postpartum depression, you know, or a level of anxiety that they're not familiar with it. It's astounding, but it still can feel really taboo to discuss openly. So is there anything that you'd like to say to any of the dads listening right now that might resonate with your story?
Brian: Oh, for sure. I mean, the biggest one is you're not alone. At all. That was the the most impressive thing to me is the more I got open about it, the more people that said, "Oh, that happens to me too." Or, "Hey, I need to go get checked out myself," or that were very patient and understanding, even if they hadn't experienced anything like that. But I'm sorry, going back to your question to Marc, as far as advice for dads-is get checked out. And a great place to start is your just general care physician. That's where I started. Also, don't get discouraged if you do get a referral or you go to your doctor and it didn't go the way you were hoping for. Shop around a little bit. I know that that's a little bit of a place of privilege depending on where you live. Mental health care providers are kind of in short supply nationwide. And then the other side with that is it can be hard, but you've got to be open and honest with them. You know, I'm the one that has to do it. You can't ultimately help someone that doesn't want to be helped either.
Adam: It sounds like the overarching advice is to own it, to not be ashamed of it and to talk about it. And we're so glad to hear that you are in a good place right now and absolutely hope that that continues. From following along to Fatterhood: a Humorous New Dad's Blog on Facebook, it's very clear that you are an awesome dad. And just like we all are, just doing our best. And we're really grateful to have you on the show.
Brian: Well, thank you guys for having me. I mean, honestly, it's I've been a listener from the start. I think the work you guys are doing is extremely important, and I love it. And I was a little anxious because, I mean, for crying out loud, you guys have had an astronaut on here! You had Danny from Pete and Pete, who was a childhood hero! I almost got a Petunia tattoo when I was old enough for crying out loud!
Marc: Brian, I just want to say thank you so much for spending time with us, for being so open and honest about your life and about your family. And I do think that this is an important conversation and one that we should really have a lot more. So thank you for for not just coming onto Modern Dadhood to talk to us about it, but for listening to Modern Dadhood. That we appreciate as well. And so from the bottom of our collective heart here, we wish you and your family all the best and just stay stay in touch with us.
Brian: I will. Don't worry about that. Thank you guys for doing so much. Glad to be a part of it!
Marc: I don't know about you, but after all this talk of mental health issues, I'm feeling the need to sort of cleanse just a little bit just in our Modern Dadhood segment kind of way. What do you think?
Adam: I know if you're referring to what I hope you're referring to, it starts off with the Gregorian monks.
Marc: For anyone who's not aware, I'm talking about... Confessions.
Adam: For their birthdays, we bought each of the girls balloons as a symbol of celebration more than once, a helium balloon silently floated by me and scared the absolute shit out of me.
Marc: My children have many toys that they don't even realize make sounds, because I intentionally never put batteries in them.
Adam: Remember those balloons I was just talking about? When they start to deflate after about a week, I take immense pleasure in quietly destroying them and tucking them into the trash can as a punishment for victimizing me.
Marc: In many games like "the floor is lava," I declare the couch to be safe zone. Not because it's safe, but because it's comfortable.
Adam: By far, the best part of playing "school" with my four year old daughter is when the "teacher" announces that it's nap time. Sinking into the couch for those 30 seconds is often the most relaxing part of my day.
Marc: Of all the milestones I've been witness to. The most proud I've felt by far was hearing my son quote a movie for the first time.
Adam: It's funny that we both had confessions about the couch!
Marc: We did.
Adam: I truly do love playing school only for that reason I have permission to lay on the couch and close my eyes.
Marc: Any time you can work something like that into a game, that's a skill you got to hone. You can't just throw it out there. It's got to be could be hidden right in a game.
Adam: And you can't let on how much you truly enjoy it.
Marc: No, because then it's all over. You're getting smacked, you know. Folks. Folks, you know what I'm going to say! You can find us at ModernDadhood.com or Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts... Pretty much anywhere that you prefer to source your podcasts. Do us a favor, please subscribe. And while you're there, write the show, maybe give us a quick review, maybe even go so far as to tell excuse me, maybe even go so far as to tell a friend.
Adam: We would love it if you would take a moment to follow us on social media. We are on Facebook and Instagram as well as YouTube, where you'll see video clips of all of our guests and outtakes from the show and some hilarious segments that never made it into an episode. We would also invite you to drop us a line at Hey@ModernDadhood.com any time to be part of the conversation.
Marc: Thank you to Caspar Babypants and Spencer Albee, and to Pete Morse at Red Vault Audio for making a sound fantastic and like we're in the same room. And thanks so much to Brian Manor for joining us on the show today.
Adam: And I get to say the last bullet this time! It's a rarity.
Marc: Kick it!
Adam: Thank you for listening. How'd I do?