Entering into a new school year is anxiety-inducing as it is. This year, for many parents it feels like teetering on a precipice— each way down lined with more questions than answers. We sit down with Jon L’Ecuyer, a high school Government teacher and dad to a second grade daughter, to discuss the choices that his family is contemplating. We talk navigating hybrid learning models, juggling homeschooling with working from home, getting creative with hands-on assignments, and the myriad other back to school considerations. Also, find out whether Marc’s kids share his preferred method of eating an ice cream cone.
Entering into a new school year is anxiety-inducing as it is. This year, for many parents it feels like teetering on a precipice— each way down lined with more questions than answers. We sit down with Jon L’Ecuyer, a high school Government teacher and dad to a second grade daughter, to discuss the choices that his family is contemplating. We talk navigating hybrid learning models, juggling homeschooling with working from home, getting creative with hands-on assignments, and the myriad other back to school considerations. Also, find out whether Marc’s kids share his preferred method of eating an ice cream cone.
Episode 25 dives with reckless abandon into a discussion on the concerns, contemplation, and contention around the fast-approaching school year. Adam and Marc discuss their own arrangements before welcoming guest Jon L'Ecuyer, a father of one 7-year-old daughter and a freshman Government teacher at a school of 3,300 students in New Hampshire.
Jon candidly shares his his personal opinions regarding the return to school for both younger and older students, as well as his district's plans for a safe return. The conversation touches on topics including:
• The challenges of being a two-teacher family
• Being forthright with our kids about the dangers of the virus
• The moment the news came in about remote learning in March 2020
• Expectations for the remainder of the 2020 school year
• Expectations for the future of learning
• Why remote learning is often harder for teachers
• The importance of socialization for high school students
• What most classrooms look like now
Marc shares a recent unusual exclamation in an installment of Did I Just Say That Out Loud? before closing out the episode.
We would like to sincerely wish all parents and students a smooth and safe transition back to learning, whatever that may look like.
[Episode Transcript]
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Adam:
Okay.
Marc:
Oh!
Adam:
Did I scare you?
Marc:
Yeah.
Adam:
Caught you off guard.
Marc:
Yeah. Should we introduce the show?
Adam:
Yeah, have at it man.
Marc:
Okay. Welcome back. This is Modern Dadhood, an ongoing conversation about the joys, challenges, and general insanity of being a dad in this moment. My name is Marc Checket, and I am a dad of twin boy toddlers. And who am I looking at?
Adam:
Through Zoom, the computer screen-
Marc:
Through Zoom.
Adam:
... you're looking at me. My name is Adam Flaherty. I am a father of two daughters who are six and three. And we'd like to remind you that we are not experts.
Marc:
We are not experts.
Adam:
We are run of the mill average dads.
Marc:
100%.
Adam:
Maybe above average in some ways.
Marc:
You are.
Adam:
And lacking in some ways too.
Marc:
Also you.
Adam:
Modern Dadhood is an interview show where we bring in dad guests and talk about dad topics. The good, bad, and the fugly.
Marc:
That's right. And today we welcome Jon L’Ecuyer, who is not only a father of one seven year old daughter, he also happens to be a high school teacher. Isn't that something?
Adam:
Yeah. He's experiencing this whole thing in two very different ways.
Marc:
Yes.
Adam:
Two ways that I am very eager to talk to him about because I don't have kids in school, so I don't have to deal with this stuff quite yet. Where are you and Jamie at with the boys? They've returned to a daycare facility, right?
Marc:
Yeah, that's correct. They're back at daycare. They go, it's five days a week, kind of full for them. They're there from like 9:00 to 4:30 or so. It was a tough decision. It was a very hard decision to send them back. I think my wife and I are fortunate because we both work from home, so we are not out in the world seeing anybody else. And so we're at least still limiting our contact with other people as best we can. We started to really see a need for them to experience more than what we could give them within the walls of our own home. And it was kind of like a switch. They started acting pretty differently once they went back, in a positive way.
Adam:
I was going to say, different good or different bad?
Marc:
Different good, yeah. No, all of a sudden they were assholes. No, it was mostly positive. What's new in your world, man?
Adam:
Yeah. What's going on with us is just what so many other parents are dealing with at this exact moment, which is the insanity of this whole back to school thing, and trying to figure out what the hell we're going to do and what is right for our kids and our family. And nobody's been through something like this before, whether it's the families or the school administration, the faculty. Everybody's figuring this out as they go. And so it was only a week, two weeks ago that the school district where we live started rolling out their plan for the fall. And their plan for the fall for kindergarten through fourth grade looks a lot different than their plan for the fall for fifth grade through 12th grade. And they have decided that for kindergarten through fourth grade, the kids will be going back to school five days a week, minus like half a day on Wednesday. You can opt for a remote option, a fully remote option, or you can take your kid out of the school system and essentially homeschool. And where we're at is that my younger daughter was in a nature-based preschool that we loved that is not opening back up for a number of reasons in the fall.
Marc:
And your older daughter went through the same thing.
Adam:
She did. We really loved it. They spent most of their time outside. It was just really great for both of them. But the young woman who was running that school is now starting her own outdoor nature-based preschool program. Much of the same philosophy that the school had. Now it's her thing sort of on her terms. And we love her. She's fantastic. The staff from the school is fantastic, and she's brought most of them with her. And so now she's scrambling for the last two weeks and the next two weeks to pull this together and to create this organization and to just deal with all the logistics of setting up a business. And we know it'll be great for our three-year-old.
Adam:
What we're exploring now is if our six year old, who's going into second grade, can also be there in that same little campus. And if we can hire a private instructor to follow a curriculum that we will license with a small group, a small cohort of other students. That's what makes sense for us. We feel good about the decision. At every quarter of the school year, so every nine weeks or so, we will have the option to move our older daughter back into the school system if we want to. And then it's just going to sort of depend on the numbers and what the virus looks like then. We would love to get her back into the school system as soon as possible, but we're just thrilled that it seems to be shaking out that she'll be able to go to the same place as our younger daughter, spend most of their days outside and still get an education at the same time.
Marc:
That's amazing.
Adam:
We have lots of friends who are sending their kids back into the school building and have no judgment at all towards that approach. And just sort of understand that everybody has to do what's right for their family. And there are many different variables that go into that for families. It can be scheduling, it can be their comfort level with safety. It can be the socialization piece. There's so many different variables that could go into that decision.
Marc:
Yeah. I was just thinking of this meme I saw the other day that was like, "The correct answer to the following questions." And it was like, or to the following statements. And one was like, "I'm sending my kid back to school." And the other one was like, "We're doing remote learning." And the other one was like, "We're going to homeschool our kids." And it was like all the exact same answer, response to those, which is like, "Good job. It's a tough decision that you have to go through right now."
Adam:
Yeah. Exactly.
Marc:
And it's right. It's I mean everybody's ... Gosh, kids learn differently from one another. Parents have different situations. Parents have different job things to consider. I mean there's just so many variables. And it's just a new territory. Anybody can be like, "All right, hang on a second. We've all been through this before. Let me just pull out the playbook from the last time we ran this," and that just doesn't exist.
Adam:
And I feel like there's still so much that's unknown about the virus too.
Marc:
It feels like this is something we've all been enduring for some time. And I mean, depending on your perspective I suppose, it has been a while. It's been months.
Adam:
Yep.
Marc:
Thinking back to February of this year. I mean, my gosh, we're going into the fall. There is so much that is unknown. And all we've experienced of this virus we haven't experienced it in the fall. We haven't experienced it in the winter. So there are still huge chunks of time that we just don't know, because we haven't experienced it with this particular virus in this particular circumstance yet.
Adam:
Well as we approach the fall and the return to school, we thought it would be interesting and insightful to hear from a high school teacher about how his district is handling the return to school. And at the same time, how that either jives or clashes with he and his wife's personal plans for their own daughter, who's going to be going into second grade.
Adam:
So Jon L’Ecuyer, a personal friend of mine, welcome to Modern Dadhood.
Jon:
No, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Adam:
This show has been fun because it's allowed us to have really great conversations with people who we don't know, but also when it is appropriate and fitting to welcome friends onto the show too. And Marc and I have both had a chance to bring in people who have a relevance to the topic we're talking about. And he popped right into my head when we started thinking about this whole sort of back to school conversation, because like I said when I was introducing you, you've got the perspective of a high school teacher who's going back into a school building that will look totally different than when you left it, and also your daughter Zoe is going into second grade, and I would love to hear about your plans for her. But first, tell us a little bit about your family.
Jon:
Yeah. So my wife Lindsey is also a high school teacher. She teaches science down in Massachusetts, which adds a different dichotomy, because I'm a high school teacher in New Hampshire. And then there's differences there with this whole COVID thing. And our daughter, Zoe, she just turned seven in July, as energetic and opinionated as her parents. So that's been fun. But yeah, so it's the three of us, which has been interesting because for her, she's been around a lot of adults, she doesn't have a sibling. And I know you guys have talked about in prior episodes that being careful with how you represent yourself and what you think and what you wear on your faces as far as not scaring them, but wanting them to be informed. And so she's quite aware, but at the same time I don't think scared. I don't think she'll be, at least I hope, not any long term negative impacts on her, as far as that goes.
Adam:
I just found out, Jon, that you are a high school government teacher. And we were talking a little bit before you hopped on what a wild time to be a government teacher, first of all. And we don't have to go down that road. Maybe we'll save that for a different podcast, but can you paint us a little bit of a picture what March of 2020 looked like in your high school?
Jon:
Yeah, I mean we were business as usual right up until March 12th. And then literally I ... It's one of those moments, you know how September 11th is you've lived through it, you remember everything. It's going to be one of those moments in my school that was kind of pre-COVID and post. And we all remember exactly where we were on March 13th that Friday. I was actually, I do the faculty play. And so we, a bunch of teachers were in the plate stayed after school that day to practice the play that was coming up in May. And we got an email from our headmaster that afternoon. We had said goodbye to the kids. They had assignments due Monday, everything was normal, nobody packed up classrooms. But we got an email that afternoon at like five o'clock saying, "You're not coming back into school on Monday. Get ready to teach these kids remotely.” And so we had maybe two or three days lead time as teachers to get our lessons all converted into somehow being able to teach them virtually. We really rose to the occasion. I was quite proud of us because it was a lot. And it was a lot on the kids. It was a lot. You're going through your own fears. I mean, we were scared, we're not going to hide that. And your family and then you're still supposed to be rising to the occasion for your job. So it was surreal. The whole thing was a whirlwind.
Adam:
Did the school system give you a period of time that you were going to be remote? Did they say, "We're going to do this for two weeks and then reassess?" Or was it like right then they kind of called it for the rest of the year?
Jon:
Yeah no, it was pretty much week by week. I think in the back of our minds a lot of us knew that it probably ... I mean, you could see the news, right? It certainly wasn't getting seemingly better day to day. But I think as humans we kind of hold out hope, and most of us as teachers, the best part of our job is actually the classroom time. It kind of robbed us of that. So for a lot of us, I'll tell you, I mean remote you work longer hours, it's harder to break between family and your job. And it was the hardest I've ever worked. So I just wish there was a little bit more understanding that remote is not a vacation. It's not getting more time. So people, the teachers aren't saying it for that, they're saying it for their own health, but also the health of their students, and just this realization that it can be done. Especially, I guess I should talk for the high school age, right? The high schoolers can stay home alone. Usually you hear a lot is daycare, right? Well, the kids, the elementary school for the economy to come back, it has to be daycare. We need these schools open. And that's tough to hear as a teacher, especially a high school teacher, because that's not the reason to justify it. It should be backed by science and things like that. So you're hearing more and more that kids, even young kids are getting sick. I mean that's why I'm keeping my second grader out. I think if you talked to us in March or April, right, the general consensus was that kids weren't vulnerable. They weren't vulnerable, I should say. They were immune almost. And that's kind of slowly been proven not to be true as we learn more about it. So it's just the unknown. And we worked so hard for five months, why kind of throw it away just because the calendar says it's September and that's when we should be in school? So I just wish there was a little bit more understanding of what remote really was. Anyway, going back to your question. It was week to week, but then it got to be about mid-April and we kind of knew we were going to do this through June.
Marc:
Suddenly you're thrust into this remote learning atmosphere. A couple months go by, March, April, May. How are you finding it trying to hold students' attention and hold them accountable and all of that?
Jon:
Yeah, that's a great question. And it was something we were figuring out as we went along. Not to toot my own horn, but those teachers who really take the time to develop a culture with their classroom and get to know their kids and develop a bond more so that they want to work for you, those classes did better than the ones that didn't, or that maybe don't quite have that as their strength. So I was able to kind of hold on to them. But you did, you saw a trail off. You would have Zoom. And the kids, we have very high expectations. I will say, my school, New Hampshire, and particularly in my school, and these grades were going to impact their GPA. And we didn't reduce the rigor, really. And most of these parents were still working so these kids were all of a sudden at home, kind of in a college-like atmosphere where there's nobody really watching if you're doing your schoolwork. And it was very easy for people to drop off, which was scary. That's why we were very fearful of just like MIA, just huge failure rates happening. And the kids really thrived. They really craved, actually, teachers who were doing more live Zooms. Right? Or even live notes rather than recorded video and play it for them and just tell them to watch it and I'll be here if you need me, text or email me. So much of what we do is based on that connection, that bond, that being face to face. So it was surreal that in that way.
Adam:
Now speaking of parents who are still working, you are a family of three with two full time teaching parents. What did that look like for you guys when suddenly Zoe was home trying to follow a first grade curriculum while you both were trying to teach your students full time?
Jon:
Yeah, it was incredibly challenging. I mean, we like to talk about, "Oh, it was so great having family time", and it certainly was, but not to kind of ignore the challenges of course. I mean, there were days where I had a class and we were expected to teach on a schedule. So if you had an 8:00 AM to 9:30, that was what you were doing with your kids. So I would have to be doing that. And there were times where my wife's schedule overlapped, and we both have to be committed to our students while my daughter is looking for help signing onto her Google Meet. So it was challenging. I mean, it took us a couple of weeks to really get into a groove where we knew, "All right, well you're going to be up in the office, maybe on the computer. Lindsey will be down here in the kitchen, and Zoe will be ... well we'll set her up for the living room," and kind of all be able to do our own things and just find out that schedule that worked.
Adam:
Absolutely.
Marc:
Yeah.
Adam:
So then we moved into summertime. Everybody had different assumptions about what the fall was going to look like. I think a lot of us thought that things would have cleared up by now. But here we are in the end of August all scrambling to make plans that are right for our family. And based on a number of different things. There's obviously a lot of controversy around the return to school. And I'd like to hear about that from both the perspective of a teacher and of a dad. So let's start with the dad. Zoe is going into second grade. In her school district what does reopening look like?
Jon:
Her district, by a 3-2 vote, decided to do hybrid. But they also gave the option for full remote for students. So-
Adam:
And what are your plans for her going to be? Are you going to send her into the building, or will you keep her out and do remote?
Jon:
Yeah. So it was getting down to crunch when our hearts sank. I mean my wife took it really hard when that decision was made with the school committee, especially because it had looked leading up to it that they had the numbers to go full remote, and then somebody changed at the very last second, they were kind of persuaded in the very last meeting. So we went from kind of being like, "We don't need to scramble. We're one of the fortunate ones. We're not trying to figure it out because my wife's going to be home with her and it'll be fine." And so that really threw a monkey wrench at us that we weren't thinking was going to be the case. So knowing what we know, my wife's being a science teacher, me reading too much about it this summer, it just, for us, it doesn't feel safe. Especially at her age, to put her back in there. So luckily my mother-in-law is being very courageous, quite frankly, and she's agreed to be home with her and let us take her to her house. And she will do the remote teaching with her so that my wife and I can go to school. But it's a huge, huge worry. We're indebted to her, because without that I don't know what we would've done.
Marc:
So you're a teacher of high school students in ninth grade. And sort of, as we understand it, kids that age, and of course adults and older have a higher likelihood of contracting and transmitting this virus. So what kind of plans does your school have for the reopening? Can you kind of talk a little bit about maybe what some of the safety protocols are going to be like?
Jon:
Yeah, sure. The big thing that I think, for my school to push to reopen, we are doing a hybrid model. The big thing was this culture I talked about, right? In March when we went remote, even those of us ... My course is a semester course, so it's only a half year, but I had met those students in late January. So I had a good six weeks to establish a classroom culture, that bond. If we had gone straight remote, right, the argument is that you don't get that with these kids. And then how are you supposed to ... you've never met face to face, but here they are enrolled in this virtual classroom with you. Right? And they're not college kids. So how was that going to be? Right? And did every kid have a one to one computer? We need to get those in the hands of these kids. So I think a lot of that reasoning went into our decision. Again, is remote probably the better choice? I would say that just as a blanket statement. Not against my school. Most schools aren't doing remote. But based on what I know, I think that's the safest route. Having said that, they are taking a lot of precautions. One of the things our teachers felt very strongly about was that we had to mandate masks. The distancing is happening. So in my classroom I generally have 30 desks. My classroom today had 12. Bizarre to walk in there. It's very bare bones. They're putting partitions up. The assistants in the main office, they're separating out that where they can, they're changing walking path directions and making it one way or this way. Hand sanitizer stations going up. Clorox wipes. Lunchtime is going to be kids sitting at isolated desks spread throughout a cafeteria. I mean they're trying to do ... they're following the CDC guidelines. They're trying to do everything possible. I will give them that. Still, you're inside a room, right? You're breathing air. And I mean, everybody's crossing our fingers that it will work.
Marc:
I'm trying to imagine myself back in high school and the things that I cared about, and how hard already it was for me to stay focused in classes. Adam and I were talking about the social aspect of school and how important that is to you when you're in that moment. Ninth grade, 10th grade, I mean, there's a big social aspect to your life. And it revolves largely around school. And I just wonder how difficult it must be for kids to not just focus on all this weird new stuff that's happening. And just the virus and this pandemic, I mean I know that it commandeers half of my day every day, and I'm a grownup working at home. Gosh, it just must be such a difficult, I would say adjustment, but it's like longer than an adjustment.
Jon:
Right? No. And you're hitting the nail on the head. I mean, I can't tell you how many conversations I had just today with fellow teachers, because we were asking our admins about the numbers, because our students do have the choice to stay fully remote if they want to. So we're a school of 3,300 students. And only 13%, so about 384 kids, have decided to stay full remote. And as teachers go we said that didn't surprise us, right? Because they're craving that social, they want to come back and see their friends. But what we are anticipating is that they're going to see what those classrooms look like. They're going to see the teachers in our masks and our face shields, some of which are wearing scrubs. I mean, you talked about just the bizarro kind of dystopian world look. Right? I mean, lunch not with your friends, but sitting by yourself in a desk. So a lot of those social things are not coming back with them coming back. So we actually expect to see a huge influx in kids who go remote, because they're going to see what it's like and probably not ... Why would you get up early and risk your health to come into that? So we'll see.
Adam:
Are there any other issues that are weighing heavily or particularly controversial as a high school teacher that we might not be thinking of, or anybody who's not a high school teacher might not consider?
Jon:
There's just, I mean, I'm somebody who feels pretty strongly about the remote, right? But I do sympathize and empathize with the ... I understand that there's certain populations within our school that really, they almost have to have that one on one. Our special ed program, for example. Those kids need to be in school. So how can we make that possible, but maybe keep the vast majority of people safe too? Our trade, our skills people, right? CTE programs, those are hands-on things. Even my wife teaching a science class, I have it pretty easy in social studies. I can adapt most of my lessons to virtual. Lindsey's losing the hands-on labs. Or they have to get real creative with how they're going to do it. So there's a lot of challenges like that, that it's just that we're going to have to figure it out as we go. I mean, you can't really sit here and plan it out because we don't know what it's going to look like when the kids are actually in the classrooms yet.
Adam:
That's an interesting thing. So as teachers get creative with how they're going to do things that used to be hands on experiences, what about things that would require delivering or shipping things to students? Is there budget for that? Or are those conversations just had on a case by case basis?
Jon:
Yeah. I mean that came up today too, because we were talking about, we were setting up our classrooms. Right? And we do a lot of in class work where we have our boxes of crayons and colored pencils for the kids, and all these things that you share. Right? And a lot of kids touch it any given day, especially if you're working on a project in class. And we were talking, "Well, we're not going to put those out." Right? So we're going to have to ask the kids to supply them themselves. But then you come up against, we have a significant part of our population that that really will be a hardship. So then do we ask for it to be bought for us? Or do the teachers just try to bridge that gap? So yeah, that's certainly, I mean, there's teachers who were saying, "We're not going to collect any paperwork. I don't want to touch their stuff. We're not." So everything is going to have to be some type of you're handing it in virtually. I don't really prefer that. I think that touching transmission is really not our chief concern. I think it's the aerosols. Not that I'm a doctor or a scientist. But the touching I'm not too worried about. So I could see myself collecting work. But there's some teachers who are just, they're not going to do that. And they've made that choice.
Marc:
I mean just thinking too, you had mentioned you were on like a teacher's theater group. Is that what you said?
Jon:
Oh yeah. The faculty play.
Marc:
So much of the, I feel like, I don't know, national discussion maybe as it pertains to like extracurricular activities is so centered around sports, but there are plenty of kids who are facing like exactly what you went through with the faculty theater group. It's a shame that you're probably having groups like that that are being disbanded. Or I feel like arts is often a place that gets sort of put on the chopping block as it is. That must be a difficult predicament to think through, how do you supplement that in times of remote learning.
Jon:
Yeah, it is worrisome, because for a lot of those kids that's the only outlet they have. And that's, I'm going to go off on a tangent, but that's part of also what kind of goes into the decision making about whether to be in school or not because you have populations that, being home is not actually the best thing for them. We have kids who rely on us to feed them. So again, kind of going into that thought process. But at my freshman orientation day, we held it and I worked outside, and I saw the band. Kids were doing their ... They were outside in a field. Normally they'd be inside, but right now the weather is nice too. And I think as the weather starts to shift it's going to get harder and harder for some of these things to actually go forward. But yeah, you had theater groups, the big spring musical that they were working on kind of got ripped out from under them. And tentatively right now we even have a prom from last year is tentatively scheduled for this fall to see if we can do it. So they're trying. But yeah, I mean a lot of these experiences, these defining experiences for these students have been taken away. So it's kind of one of those things. It's not fair to anybody.
Adam:
Well, we wish you, Lindsey, Zoe, nothing but the best. And we'll be thinking about you and it's been a real pleasure having you on Modern Dadhood.
Jon:
You guys as well. I hope your families take care, and everything works out for how you want it to work out as we go forward here.
Adam:
Thanks Jon. I do believe it's time for another installment of: Did I just say that out loud? Thank you Carl Kassel.
Marc:
I think I'm getting better at it.
Adam:
Yeah.
Marc:
I hope I'm getting better at it.
Adam:
What you got?
Marc:
I have one. And as per usual I'm going to say it, and then I'm just going to pause and I'm going to let you imagine the scenario.
Adam:
I love it. Okay. Go.
Marc:
Okay. Here's what I said, "Don't do it from the bottom. Do it from the top and spin."
Adam:
Don't do it from the bottom. Do it from the top and spin.
Marc:
Yeah. Yeah. That's what I said.
Adam:
I know you're potty training, but I can't picture what that would be. Spin is the thing. I'm visualizing spinning things in my mind. Is it something spinning in one of their hands? Is it their full body spinning? Could it be like a fishing pole reeling?
Marc:
Not bad.
Adam:
I don't know.
Marc:
I love watching Adam's brain work. There's some steam.
Adam:
I give up. I just give up.
Marc:
I'll just come right out and say it. We were eating ice cream cones.
Adam:
Oh.
Marc:
Okay? And I have one son who will, from top to bottom, just lick, lick, lick. And then when he gets to the cone he just eats it. And I have another son who's very leery around the cone itself. He's not 100% sure where he should start and where it should end. And he's started kind of like licking a little, but then he just kind of gets curious about the bottom of it and we'll just go at it, eating at it. And there's been a couple of occasions where he's eaten a bunch of the bottom and then it melts and drips.
Adam:
Of course, it gets messy.
Marc:
And then he's all upset that there is just ice cream just streaming out onto his lap and his hands and everything. And so I've been trying to direct them to start from the top of it. And the other thing that they're not understanding is that they take their time and ice cream melts, and so it's a race against time a lot of the time. And so a method that I employ is the sort of tongue out, spin. Take the cone and spin it around. So that way you're enjoying it, but you're also just routinely cleaning up that rim of the cone to keep the drips from really ... And so I kind of yelled out like, he was kind of licking and eating at the bottom. I said, "Don't do it from the bottom. Do it from the top. And spin."
Adam:
Spin it.
Marc:
Yeah.
Adam:
What flavor?
Marc:
We were eating at the time, it was like a peanut butter fudge thing.
Adam:
Perfect.
Marc:
We keep trying. Just like every grocery store trip we're just getting like another flavor. Seeing what they love and seeing what they hate.
Adam:
Well, there you have.
Marc:
It spins us right into the outro.
Adam:
That's right. Dads, you can find us at moderndadhood.com, on iTunes, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and all the rest of them. All of them.
Marc:
All of them.
Adam:
Please consider hitting that little subscribe button if you haven't. And it actually only takes less than a minute to leave us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts. And I'll tell you, it is so appreciated.
Marc:
I mean, Adam, I've left reviews and it's taken me 10 seconds.
Adam:
You've left them under many different names, haven't you?
Marc:
Yeah. Why do you think we have so many reviews? Hey, you could also drop us a line at: hey, at moderndadhood.com. And you can write in and you can say, "We love X about the show. And we hate Adam about the show."
Adam:
Well played, sir.
Marc:
Yeah. Zing.
Adam:
Thank you to Caspar Babypants and Spencer Albee for our Modern Dadhood music, and to Pete Morse at Red Vault Audio for his impeccable mixing skills. And as we always say to close out the show, thank you for listening.
Marc:
I'm mouthed it. Could you tell?